For those who support new laws for "combatting terror"[sic]...

Originally Posted by foxybrown

At least the terrorist gets off his arse and goes to the effort of carrying out an operation, we have rules

Originally Posted by robk147

W T F ???

It is a valid point , as is why are terrorist
driven to attack US/UK/whoever and how can uk.gov
make the country less of a target?

With every additional regulation that comes into force, every EU mandate, every sledgehammer enforcement measure introduced to catch/fine/punish the british citizen you cannot be surprised that we look cynically at this (or any other) government's motives on almost any issue.

Originally Posted by Der Teufel

You don't pay FOXY's wages.. don't think for a minute that you do.

You pay local taxes (Council etc) and the Tax Office (income tax) and indirect taxes (VAT road tax etc.).

The Govt and local Authority then decide how to spend that money
they can do that because they have a democratic mandate.

So indirectly like I said I do.... If I don't pay taxes they don't have the money to spend.

So, if you don't like it lobby for a change with your local councillor or MP.

Foxy probably contributes more than you could possibly fathom. Freedom is not a Depeche Mode lyric, its not a bloody T shirt !
No I agree.... which is why I object to the current Governments hell bent attempt to remove them!

You really need to think more before opening up like this, Whinging on a car forum isn't contributing.


I outlined that until we get a general election there's limited options... and I know how my MP voted on 42 days so lobbying him isn't really worthwhile.

We don't have to all join the armed forces to have an opinions for effecting Government policy but that is irrelevant.... This isn't Starship Troopers where service guarantees Citzenship.

I don't have to make a contribution to be entitled to my opinion. I am also free to air them (unless this forum has a policy that you have to be part of the fight against terrorism to post ).


It's because of people like Foxy that you have a freedom of speech and not in spite of them, it really is time you understood that.

This has got nothing to do with our armed services and the job they do. It is to do with the hijacking of anti terror laws for petty purposes... it is time you understand that.

Just as apost script did you know that it is illegal for a police officer to strike.

Or agaist regulations to be a member of any political party

or a Trade Union.

Yet these 'rights' are given up for the greater good so that you get an a-political service.

and whilst we are here, his opinion is ten times more valid than yours because he knows what he's talking about.

Right..... he's part of the British military/security appartus... the same guys who siad Iraq has WMDs they can launch at the UK in 45 minutes... excuse me if I make up my own mind on this.

I am pretty well read on the subject of what our forces are doing on our behalf and am very grateful that they do it... That still has nothing to do with a council worker being able to read my email without me knowing, when I have nothing to do with terrorism what so ever. Re-read the title of the post.

I have not criticised our armed services once... I merely took objection to the attitude that I don't have a right to an opinion unless I some how part of the War Against Terror (TM).


If I was you I'd take a few minutes and come back when you've had a think about this.

I have and I have

`

Originally Posted by Der Teufel

It's because of people like Foxy that you have a freedom of speech

...so don't be surprised if people express their opinions through freedom of speech in an open forum, and expect to have them respected even if not agreed with.

Well said Monty, you put that much more eloquently than I could!

Originally Posted by rayq81

Where are all the cells going to come from ? this country cant lock up criminals because they have no room for them

..but statistics look good, right? If you concentrating on catching the dog poopers, the bin overfillers, the 31mph lunatics, you can make your successrate look better can't you? Look at us! Look how much better things are now we're in power! Don't worry about how much we look over your shoulder, or how much it costs to have us look over your shoulder!

The example that sickens me is the one where parents were followed to make sure they actually lived in the catchment area of the schools where they were sending their kids; surely much better to spend time, money and resource tracking these people down and criminalising them, rather than improving the schools so no-one cares which school their kids go to?

Originally Posted by mave

..but statistics look good, right? If you concentrating on catching the dog poopers, the bin overfillers, the 31mph lunatics, you can make your successrate look better can't you? Look at us! Look how much better things are now we're in power! Don't worry about how much we look over your shoulder, or how much it costs to have us look over your shoulder!

The example that sickens me is the one where parents were followed to make sure they actually lived in the catchment area of the schools where they were sending their kids; surely much better to spend time, money and resource tracking these people down and criminalising them, rather than improving the schools so no-one cares which school their kids go to?

If you are going to abuse anti terror legislation, you could at least use it to bring down youth knife crime rather than the "Wheely Bin One".

Originally Posted by robk147

His opinion is more valid because you happen to agree with it?

It's because he has knowledge while you talk from a position of ignorance. All you know is what you see on the telly read in the papers of discover by serendipity while trawling the web. That's why his opinion is more important and valid.

The message you and he seem to be putting across is that people should be automatically grateful for what they've got and not complain when more of their freedom is taken away at the whim of a political party. Well that's absolute rubbish IMO. People joining the military are 'brainwashed' in a way to display unquestioning loyalty so it's no surprise to see these types of views posted.

A little more loyalty wouldn't do you any harm

Well guess what, I didn't vote for the current government and I'm not going to pretend I like it when they persist in passing laws to remove people's civil liberties.

Good, I didn't either, see my last paragraph

And surprising as it may seem terrorism is way down my list of major concerns affecting this country, I don't believe for a moment the claim that "5 times as many attacks are prevented than the ones reported". There is also no way that foxybrown knows if this is true, despite what he's been told.

You know nothing

Oh and the tax-paying public do pay the militaries' wages through government taxation as you said in your post.

I've explained this once if it's too difficult for you to grasp I'd give it up.

This doesn't make any sense. Contributing what? Politically? What has doing military service got to do with not liking a political decision???

I'm sorry if I wasted my time

Originally Posted by mave

...so don't be surprised if people express their opinions through freedom of speech in an open forum, and expect to have them respected even if not agreed with.

Thoroughly agree , but one shouldn't suggest someone has been brain washed into that opinion , that's degrading and disrespectful.

Originally Posted by Nev

It is a valid point , as is why are terrorist
driven to attack US/UK/whoever and how can uk.gov
make the country less of a target?

Perhaps we should give up everthing we believe in, and buy into the restoration of the Caliphate which is what al Quaeda wants...tell me if I'm going to fast.

I used to think the Govt were pretty stupid....sadly I now know it is much darker than I want to imagine....so I try not to think about it

Please don't think for a minute this is not going to plan



Chris

Originally Posted by Der Teufel

Perhaps we should give up everthing we believe in, and buy into the restoration of the Caliphate which is what al Quaeda wants...tell me if I'm going to fast.

Watch your chin. your knee almost hit it with that one.

Originally Posted by Monty

If you are going to abuse anti terror legislation, you could at least use it to bring down youth knife crime rather than the "Wheely Bin One".

I agree with you here, the abuse of these powers by Local Councils is unforgivable. They are there because some people really need them. If people abuse them they will be lost and that would be a problem. I hope you noticed it was a police officer who led the criticism of the misuse of these powers ?

It's because police have or are supposed to have no political affiliations that they can do this.

If these terrorists are so super-organised and professional, why are they so much less successful than the IRA who we apparently didn't need all this terrorist legislation for?

Originally Posted by badgers_nadgers

If these terrorists are so super-organised and professional, why are they so much less successful than the IRA who we apparently didn't need all this terrorist legislation for?

The single largest terrorist attack in terms of loss of life, infrastructure etc. 9/11 are you for real ?

The reason we have Terrorist Legislation is because of the IRA, and they had their fair share of own goals

You sound like a bloke falling out of an office block....evertime he passes a window he shouts ..
















so far so good,

Originally Posted by Der Teufel

The single largest terrorist attack in terms of loss of life, infrastructure etc. 9/11 are you for real ?

The reason we have Terrorist Legislation is because of the IRA, and they had their fair share of own goals

You sound like a bloke falling out of an office block....evertime he passes a window he shouts ..

Al Qaeda isn't that well organised. It's mostly a loose affilition of
smaller groups around the world.

If you look at the actual Sept 11th attacks they were hijackings
with Stanley knives.
The reason the attacks worked with such devastating horror
was because the passengers, if they even knew what was happening,
remained calm (as you were advised to) during the hijackings.

Once the flight 93 passengers were warned of what was happening,
they didn't just sit there and let it happen!

The idea that there is a big organised force of terrorists is just so bogus.
The media just parrots what the governments want them
to say, so that the public are softened up enough to swallow any
story they tell them!

You do seem to revel in the propaganda and you still haven't said
if you'll support any new law they throw at you:
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/rant-...ml#post1880216 (For those who support new laws for "combatting terror"[sic]...)

Originally Posted by Der Teufel

The single largest terrorist attack in terms of loss of life, infrastructure etc. 9/11 are you for real ?

9/11 owes most of it's success to the failures of the security forces to act upon the information they had at hand, and to follow simple procedures always before taken in instances of hijack.

Without fear - you would not need goverment

Originally Posted by Der Teufel

I agree with you here, the abuse of these powers by Local Councils is unforgivable. They are there because some people really need them. If people abuse them they will be lost and that would be a problem. I hope you noticed it was a police officer who led the criticism of the misuse of these powers ?

It's because police have or are supposed to have no political affiliations that they can do this.

I'm glad you agree with me because that was the whole point of the thread.

The original post was highlighting how anti terror legislation had been suborned by Councils to be used for pretty trivial issues, most of which are not even criminal charges but conveniently result in a fine being paid to a local council (e.g. littering, fouling of footpaths etc.).