ISPs want the Beeb to fund the update of their crappy networks!?!

[Nev]

Not only does the Beeb have to fund the switch
to digital TV, but now the UK ISPs are asking
for cash to upgrade their networks.

Cheeky *******s!


Tried the iPlayer when I was in the UK week before last.
Brilliant. Works on the iPod too.

Can't wait for an international version!

BBC NEWS | Technology | BBC and ISPs clash over iPlayer

[PC7671]

What about 4 on demand and the ITV catch up services. Just people with there hand out for easy tax payers cash.

[Dibby]

But the BBC is funded by us lot so it's not the BBC that will end up paying for it, it's you and me.

Maybe it's time for the ISPs to stop selling capacity they haven't got with flashy adverts for 'Unlimited' broadband and promises of speeds and usage limits they'll never keep up with if everyone jumps on the TV-over-the-internet bandwaggon.

[EddieGTA]

Having been faced with keeping a network functioning in a broadcast environment I am with the ISP. I have a mate who works for a web hosting company and our network has some serious bandwidth compared to theirs yet we are faced with problems. This was the comment from a guy at tiscali, and it is 100% right and justified;

Gunter replied today: "Inflammatory comments about blacklisting ISPs do not help. There seems to be a lack of understanding about how networks are built. Either we are not explaining it properly or it is falling on deaf ears."

[Simes]

I'm very much with the ISP's on this one...

Yes they have shot themselves in the foot with the 8Mb and unlimited marketing guff, but iplayer could easily put them out of business.

If the Beeb refuses to help they have 2 choices

1) buy more capacity to support the increased demand for streaming however their margins are small at the moment as BT takes huge portions of their income for IPstream charges.

2) don't buy capacity and as their network fills suffering customers will leave and o to an ISP whi has done 1 until that fills...

so the ISP's loose and we loose. Interestingly if this grows the BT IPstream network will not cope as based on contention ratios of 50:1 for each "up to 8 Mb" channel to the ISP we see 40Kb/sec as a theoretical max if we all use it and you ain't streaming video at that rate.

There is a really good blog on this by plusnet Will BBC iPlayer usage break the Internet? - The bandwidth timebomb! | Community Site News

It's also worth reading the post on how ISP's are charged:
How UK ISPs are charged for broadband - the cost of IPStream | Community Site News

My ISP and one with a sustainable business model - and as a user I believe in paying for what I get as I want what I get to be the same what I get tomorrow...

SImes.

[Nev]

What about IPTV?

All the big ISPs are hawking that here.
It's actually very difficult to get a straight
ADSL line without having to accept VoIP
and an IPTV package...

[ninjadwarf]

Originally Posted by Simes

I'm very much with the ISP's on this one...

Yes they have shot themselves in the foot with the 8Mb and unlimited marketing guff, but iplayer could easily put them out of business.

The ISPs should never have sold something they couldn't deliver. Unlimited means there are no limits, therefore they need to plan for customers using their capacity for much of the time.

Now it is well known that most people don't use all their capacity, hence contention rations.. they oversell, but they have oversold by too much and now they can't deliver.

The real problem in this country is that no-one is willing to invest in the proper infastructure required.. why do BT still install copper in the local loop? every new connection should be fibre, every new build fibre. Upgrade the coper to the local junction boxes to fibre and once that is done give users the option to buy the last link in fibre too.

Selling the copper would put a big dent in the cost at current rates and being able to sell decent speed broadband will make it worthwhile in the long run.

[EddieGTA]

Originally Posted by Nev

What about IPTV?

All the big ISPs are hawking that here.
It's actually very difficult to get a straight
ADSL line without having to accept VoIP
and an IPTV package...

As simple as it sounds, TV delived over an IP network. Digital TV is just video files, MPEG 2/4 or XBOX video store uses Windows media. These are easy to send or stream as files across a broadband connection, chances are though at a lower bitrate than standard TV or video on demand.

[Nev]

ISPs throw their toys out of the pram - The INQUIRER

[robk147]

Originally Posted by Simes

I'm very much with the ISP's on this one...

Yes they have shot themselves in the foot with the 8Mb and unlimited marketing guff, but iplayer could easily put them out of business.

If the Beeb refuses to help they have 2 choices

1) buy more capacity to support the increased demand for streaming however their margins are small at the moment as BT takes huge portions of their income for IPstream charges.

2) don't buy capacity and as their network fills suffering customers will leave and o to an ISP whi has done 1 until that fills...

so the ISP's loose and we loose. Interestingly if this grows the BT IPstream network will not cope as based on contention ratios of 50:1 for each "up to 8 Mb" channel to the ISP we see 40Kb/sec as a theoretical max if we all use it and you ain't streaming video at that rate.

There is a really good blog on this by plusnet Will BBC iPlayer usage break the Internet? - The bandwidth timebomb! | Community Site News

It's also worth reading the post on how ISP's are charged:
How UK ISPs are charged for broadband - the cost of IPStream | Community Site News

My ISP and one with a sustainable business model - and as a user I believe in paying for what I get as I want what I get to be the same what I get tomorrow...

SImes.

The ISPs have known this was coming for a long time. The issue of growth in popularity of streaming video has been on the radar for years, it's a bit late to start bleating when a hugely popular media provider decides to start offering it. The real problem is the cost of backbone-level bandwidth which has always been high. I used to work for PN and am more than aware they have often sailed close to the wind in how much bandwidth they provision to keep costs to the bare minimum. They are also one of many ISPs who have shot themselves in the foot by promises of unlimited downloads etc. in the past, competition for customers in the ISP market is fierce and most providers forego making a profit to grab new users.

I don't see how the BBC can be expected to foot the bill simply because they provide the content. The end user has a lot of options in how they receive that content, it's internet traffic. The internet providers are terrified of increasing their own prices to meet the cost as they will lose customers, they have consistently failed to market their services properly over the years as the desire to signup new users usually comes first at the expense of realistically priced products.

BTW the real world contention level for home users is much less than 50:1 (more like 20:1). Theoretically there's nothing to stop BT allowing the network to contend to that level but in practice it's unlikely to happen.