159, Brera & new Spider Experiences

Noooooooooo

Originally Posted by nomad

Noooooooooo

You'll know if I go strangely silent. I'm packin' my bags as we speak...

We'll start a free Will (ie) campaign

I voted on no.2 based on the problems we are having with the Wife's Spider.. My Sisters 159 2.2 has done nearly 30.000 km trouble free (few very small niggles)

Mmm - a retrograde step from my previous 156 2.4 JTD. The 159 2.4JTDM has so far:

1) Persistant problems with the airflow valve (triggering falt spots and hesitancies and the EOBD light to come on and the car go into "safe mode" which lowers the power output to almost dangerously low levels.) Part to be replaced under warranty (but on back-order from Italy so I guess others have suffered similarly). 10 hour job, apparently, meaning new cambelt too...what happens when the car is out of warranty?!

2) Windscreen factory-fitted with part of the glue seam missing = leaks and noise.

3) Slow synchro on 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd is infuriating.

4) Passenger door misaligned and sealed misfitted, fouling the back door and making it difficult to open. New seal and door adjustment.

5) On-board computer (sat nav version) keeps crashing and losing the audio settings and frequent numbers stored in the phone.

6) Crashy suspension.

7) Soft, chip-prone paint with orange peel on vertical surfaces.

8) Appaling economy (33-36mpg) compared to the 156 (47-52mpg) and not THAT much faster. 159 is seriously flabby and overweight and, as such, does not feel nimble and agile enough. More like an 80's Volvo!

9) Sundry squeaks, rattles and buzzes cured by turning up the radio (if it will hold a signal)...

All in all, doesn't bear close comparison to a late 156 once you look past the initial improvements (for example to interior materials etc). However, won't unfortunately hold a candle in the real world to its rivals with deeper, in-built quality. Hate to say it - BMW, AUDI et al. Never thought I'd say this either, but Alfa will fail if this and the other threads of foe on this site are to go by - and we're the marque's loyal brigade for heaven's sake!

Snidge, how come you haven't listed a 159 on your member cars?

Originally Posted by Snidge

2) Windscreen factory-fitted with part of the glue seam missing = leaks and noise.

4) Passenger door misaligned and sealed misfittedcmaking it difficult to open.

7) Soft, chip-prone paint with orange peel on vertical surfaces.

Ditto the above on the Spider.

Plus Hill control keeps giving up warning on computer during right turns.

Lights go on during full dayligt,

and.....
Rattles rattles rattles....

Originally Posted by Will

You simply cannot take this poll as representative. The numbers are far too small to even begin to provide meaningful data. In adddition it is widely accepted that forums such as this attract a disproportionate number of owners with problems, as they seek to find others with similar experiences.

I have to disagree that you can't take this as representative.

It is true that people are more likely to complain then compliment; but with the quality aspirations Alfa were supposed to have this poll shows that they still have a long way to go

Kev, how can 46 results be a representative poll??

Hundreds and probably thousands of 159's and Breras have been sold. How can you possibly rely on the experiences of 46 people out of thousands.

It's anecdotal at best.

What Will Said !!

Originally Posted by nomad

What Will Said !!

What Nomad said

Originally Posted by Will

What Nomad said

Thanks

Originally Posted by Will

Kev, how can 46 results be a representative poll??

Hundreds and probably thousands of 159's and Breras have been sold. How can you possibly rely on the experiences of 46 people out of thousands.

It's anecdotal at best.

This is absolutely correct. Any statistician would dismiss such a small, sample immediately - before needing to consider whether it is a skewed sample (which it certainly is).

Originally Posted by Will

Kev, how can 46 results be a representative poll??

Hundreds and probably thousands of 159's and Breras have been sold. How can you possibly rely on the experiences of 46 people out of thousands.

It's anecdotal at best.

Originally Posted by nomad

What Will Said !!

Originally Posted by Will

What Nomad said

Originally Posted by nomad

Thanks

Originally Posted by alfaredthegreat

This is absolutely correct. Any statistician would dismiss such a small, sample immediately - before needing to consider whether it is a skewed sample (which it certainly is).

Errhhh cos its quite common for comparatively small samples to be extrapolated as an indication of the whole. For example, polls as to what political party people are going to vote for may only have surveyed a thousand people - this is still representative of the millions who will vote.

The important thing is to get a good cross section - where is the evidence that the sample is skewed? How many 159/Brera owners are there on this site??? 46 is, in my opinion, a high number.

Originally Posted by Kevin Slegg

Errhhh cos its quite common for comparatively small samples to be extrapolated as an indication of the whole. For example, polls as to what political party people are going to vote for may only have surveyed a thousand people - this is still representative of the millions who will vote.

That thousand people will have been selected carefully, using demographics by statisticians. This is a highly academic discipline.

Originally Posted by Kevin Slegg

The important thing is to get a good cross section - where is the evidence that the sample is skewed? How many 159/Brera owners are there on this site??? 46 is, in my opinion, a high number.

Well, I know that I sought out this list because of the problems I was having with my car....

Originally Posted by Kevin Slegg

46 is, in my opinion, a high number.

No it's not. We do stat analysis during risk assessment and the results re very often skewed with small sample numbers.

I did a trawl of the internet tonight and could find nothing about recurring problems with the 159 and Brera. Loads about the 156 and 147 though.

[EDIT - except the honestjohn stuff and the Brera brake vacuum pipe recall]

Originally Posted by Fraser

No it's not. We do stat analysis during risk assessment and the results re very often skewed with small sample numbers.

I did a trawl of the internet tonight and could find nothing about recurring problems with the 159 and Brera. Loads about the 156 and 147 though.

Hmmm - actually you're quite right. For some reason my garbled brain last night cottened on to 46 being the number of people who had indicated that they had had problems - which (at the moment at least) it clearly isn't

So yes, I would agree that 46 is a small sample and that I also accept that people with problems are more likely to complain rather then people with no problems are likely to congratulate.

However, I still believe that the data collected from this poll is useful and the percentage of people experiencing problems is not partucularly good.

Originally Posted by Fraser

Snidge, how come you haven't listed a 159 on your member cars?

All done now - thanks!

Just joined this forum, wish I had before I decided to buy a Brera.
As I have already posted, i am very disappointed with the mpg from the 2.4JTDM. Even dring at a constant 60mph with a light right foot can I get nearer the 40 mpg claimed for the combined. The extra urban of 51 is just not possible. Official figures are over rated by at least 30%, and now having read some of the other comments it appears the diesels are some of the best!! the figures quoted as "government figures" were supplied to the VCA by Alfa Romeo and were clearly wrong.

My car as delivered with delivery miles had squealing brakes, a noise under the dash, a sun blind that didn't work, seat belts that didn't retract and a passenger seat that only locked in the fully back position.

First dealer fixed the sun blind, said nothing wrong with brakes and nothing wrong with noise under dash. Oh and in their fixing of the sun blind they returned the car with a large crack in the panoramic roof. So the car was returned for a new glass roof.

Second dealer said straight away that the noise under the dash was not normal and fixed that, and modified the trim by the seat belts which now retract satisfactorily ( 2 more visits).
During the visit to get the seat belts fixed, I mentioned the seat had started rocking so that is being addressed today.

However yesterday the engine attention light came on, and this is apparently due to a stuck valve in the inlet manifold. I will need to take the car in again once a spare has been delivered for that.

Brakes don't squeal much now, passenger seat still doesn't work correctly, but no one gets in the back so doesn't really matter.

Speaker covers now rattle so loudly that any music sounds dredful. In reality the stereo in my Wife's, three year old 1.4L focus sounds far better than the one in the Brera.

Dealer No 1 doesn't even return my emails now. They have tested the car twice for mpg, but will not confirm on paper (despite telling me verbally) that