159 MPH - What Do You Think???

Following the excellent thread in the Rant Room, it might be interesting to see how AO would have judged PC Mark Milton...

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY Jealous!!!!

hmm...
Not sure how to answer this. the thing is that as a high speed police driver, he actually has a general dispensation that allows him to exceed the speed limit - so he was NOT breaking the law. So, in a court of law, he is innocent.
As an internal disciplinary matter perhaps he was guilty - but then a point of the court case is that his police department have NO guidelines on when he can and can't break the speed limit - so I think were he to get a lawyer they'd be in trouble trying to take internal disciplining measures against him either.

Anyway, having heard more of the details of it, I think his actions were to a large extent reasonable anyway. The details of where and in what circumstances he sped lead me to agree that he was probably doing so perfectly safely.

I suppose, reading back my musings, I've answered my own question. Innocent it is.
BTW, he did not do 159mph, neither did he do 80 in a 30 zone.

Originally Posted by bazza

...... the thing is that as a high speed police driver, he actually has a general dispensation that allows him to exceed the speed limit - so he was NOT breaking the law. So, in a court of law, he is innocent.....

I'm still not convinced that he (or any other emergency service driver) are exempt from the law. In general, they will not be prosecuted for speeding in the line of duty, but they are still bound by law to drive with due care and attention.

In this case, he was not breaking traffic laws in the line of duty. The courts may therefore take a view on whether there is a case to answer for (whether or not he is eventually found guilty/innocent).

Originally Posted by bazza

As an internal disciplinary matter perhaps he was guilty - but then a point of the court case is that his police department have NO guidelines on when he can and can't break the speed limit - so I think were he to get a lawyer they'd be in trouble trying to take internal disciplining measures against him either.

This is where is starts to get interesting. The same body that encouraged him to "test his car & abilities" on the public road are the ones that took him to court for doing just that. Go figure . The police need to get their act together on this one, and not make a scapegoat out of one poor PC.

Originally Posted by bazza

Anyway, having heard more of the details of it, I think his actions were to a large extent reasonable anyway. The details of where and in what circumstances he sped lead me to agree that he was probably doing so perfectly safely.

I can't/won't comment on that, as I have not read enough (unbiased) details on the case to make a proper judgement. I would hope that the courts have heard all these relevant details and therefore came to a just decision on the case.

I say good on him. I also think it's an incredibly sensible and brave judge who made the decision which is very unusual these days!


Imagine if there was a car chase and the police driver pranged the car and hurt someone. If he then said "Well, I've never been allowed to drive this car over 70mph but I had to do 120 to keep up with the nicked Impreza".... the scaremongering tabloids (and their readers) would have a field day!!


There have been numerous people on here who have claimed 130/140/150 from their Alfas on a public highway, without the benefit of 4 a.m., blue lights on the roof and police training, but no-one goes banging their chest about that do they?

Originally Posted by RicksAlfas

There have been numerous people on here who have claimed 130/140/150 from their Alfas on a public highway, without the benefit of 4 a.m., blue lights on the roof and police training, but no-one goes banging their chest about that do they?

No, but by the same token no-one here would argue much if they were caught and had the full weight of the law thrown at them.....

It's not so much that he did it - it's more about the legal holes about what he did.

I think police drivers need legal protection in these situations every bit as much as the public should be able to expect safe roads. The law needs to be clarified (and publicised) on this subject, and police procedures needs to tightened up so that there is no question of risk to public safety when high-speed police drivers carry out the training that is so essential in their line of work.

Was what he did illegal, he was not on a "shout" and therefore should abide by the law.
Should police be able to "test" cars, yes, they need to assess how vehicles react in the real world, race tracks are a totally different feel.
Basically he exceeded the speed limit by more than double, he was not on a "shout", therefore he broke the law.
The fact that he is a policeman should not come into the equation.

But he didn't break the law...

Police vehicles are exempt from speed enforcements when on emergency calls or for training purposes.

I thought this poll was about the new Alfa 159.

how many of you guys would be sticking up for this copper if he had crashed into something, someone etc

he was giving it some stick and when caught he used the excuse that most of us would have been advised to use

no better than a joyrider

Originally Posted by bobdabilda

But he didn't break the law...

Police vehicles are exempt from speed enforcements when on emergency calls or for training purposes.

But from what I understand, he wasn't on a training exercise he had taken the car without any authority, therefore has broken the law.
Of course there are so many rumours I'm not sure what the truth is anymore.

Originally Posted by GOLLUM

how many of you guys would be sticking up for this copper if he had crashed into something, someone etc

But he didn't. And from the information we've heard, a lot of that is down to the fact that there was nothing and noone to crash into, as he did it with noone and nothing around.

Originally Posted by bobdabilda

Police vehicles are exempt from speed enforcements.......... for training purposes.

Only if the correct exemptions are applied for through the correct channels before hand. This officer did not do this. This is as documented in the forces own Emergency Vehicle Speed Exemption Policy 2004.

Guilty, not just because of the speed as I'd probably do something just as daft if I could but because it looks like he didn't have permission to be in the car.

At the end of the day he was doing a silly speed, got caught and wasn't training or on a shout....therefore had no real justification for the speed. In his line of work examples should be set for others....what message does this give out?

wrinx