Restore or buy?

73GTVJim · #1 (**Post Link**) 19-09-10

This GTA replica has been for sale for a while. I came across it again and it got me wondering about my own Bertie.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have £20k to spend on another one or having mine done.....but if I did?

I would like a bit of a road/trackday funster rather than show car if I ever get mine done and I suspect that this sort of money is par for the course as I don't have the time or skill to do it myself. Unfortunately.

Say we did have that money to spend though.

Would you buy a ready made rep with a modern twinny and abandon the one I have; or spend the money on a resto/upgrade retaining the Nord motor, keep mine but get a Twin Spark for it; sack the idea altogether and get a 916GTV 3.0 for £4-5k and spend a bit on that instead; get a different but cheaper classic that fits the bill, or buy a modern piece of performance kit like a 993/996 Porsche, Lotus Elise, TVR etc, etc that you could easily do and choose from loads of interesting tackle under £20k? Or none of these and invest it in an ISA or pension fund boost?

Gibbo · #2 (**Post Link**) 19-09-10

Send me your money and I will look after it for you

#3 (**Post Link**) 19-09-10

if you've got the time and space my vote goes to restoring your own

73GTVJim · #4 (**Post Link**) 20-09-10

Originally Posted by v6hughes

if you've got the time and space my vote goes to restoring your own

There's the rub. I have a tiny single garage, precious little (virtually no) "me" time and fairly limited restoration skills. My quick check list of parts/upgrade bits, estimates for body and engine work came to >£12k.

I'd like to do it myself tbh and either way I lean towards having my own brought "back to life" rather than getting something else but I keep asking myself the same questions in the poll - hence asking what you guys would do.

The one big plus for keeping it -if I had more confidence about completion - is the ability to buy parts as they are needed rather than finding several grand at once for someone doing it.

#5 (**Post Link**) 20-09-10

Originally Posted by v6hughes

if you've got the time and space my vote goes to restoring your own

What HughesKateer said

#6 (**Post Link**) 20-09-10

I would do none of the above. If you want a track car buy something that's not too expensive (BMW 328, GTV6 etc) and strip it down to the bare bones. Without airbags, A/C, EW, CL, carpets, headlining etc etc you would save a load of weight and make it much quicker for free. It won't have cost a fortune so you might be less concerned with binning it.

Then you can focus on getting your GTV back together.

Gaz · #7 (**Post Link**) 20-09-10

Jim what exactly needs doing to your Bertie?

73GTVJim · #8 (**Post Link**) 20-09-10

Originally Posted by keithyboy

I would do none of the above. If you want a track car buy something that's not too expensive (BMW 328, GTV6 etc) and strip it down to the bare bones.
Then you can focus on getting your GTV back together.

That's a bit like the 3.0 GTV option Keith.

I don't think I'd be able to keep both. I'm also not after a pure track car as such, just one that could be enjoyed that way as well as on high days.

73GTVJim · #9 (**Post Link**) 20-09-10

Originally Posted by Gaz

Jim what exactly needs doing to your Bertie?

Come round and have a look one day. It might be easier to show than tell.

Just to get it usable?

In essence it is (or appears) very solid because it was "barn stored" for many years after being stripped of all trim, lights, seals, interior. It is very low mileage, 18k km ex South Africa I'm its 4th owner (I think, maybe 3rd or 5th there haven't been many). Probably all the underseal and any crud from underneath needs removing, this might reveal horrors but the floors look good from the inside.

The paint job it had was OK for the time (about 20 years ago when it was taken off the road for a spruce up by the last owner) rather than being very good and they didn't take out the engine so the bay looks crappy. There's a small amount of surface rust on the front outrigger below the battery tray, no more than a couple of tiny bubbles on the front valance but you never know what you'll find if you start rubbing it down!

Obvious stuff like all brakes lines and a general brake overhaul, all hoses although they look solid enough they'll be tired. Maybe the clutch?

The wiring is a mess, the dash top is cracked, the centre wooden section has a huge hole where a radio used to sit, the console and spare one supplied both have lifted, rotten veneer and shabby vinyl. The seats have a couple of small rips in the stitching but I'd imagined replacing them with something lighter. The carpet is neatly folded up in a cardboard box and was like new.

The fuel tank seems solid but is full of crud as will be the fuel lines. Suspect the DellOrtos need a rebuild. It came with new Carello lamps and backing bowls but the connections and bulb is different to the rotten originals that are off the car. I've got a few new things like door seals that seem a ***** to get on so I kept giving up when I did try

to fit one.

It turns over fine but might benefit from a good rebuild. I had it running until I realised how much cack was in the fuel lines. Now I just keep it turned regularly.

Having sat so long, I think shox and tyres, bushes and might as well say springs need replacing - but they'd all be automatic choices to upgrade.

Any other sporting related upgrades like oil cooler etc.

If I went that route there's the fitment of a roll cage that'd be easier while the interior is out but I couldn't do it myself I don't think.

Oddly, listing it like that doesn't sound so bad.

Gaz · #10 (**Post Link**) 20-09-10

that doesnt sound like that much work in reality. its just a lot of ****ty little jobs that can be time consuming i suppose

let me put it this way, there seems to be a bit less work to do on this than there does on my Mini

73GTVJim · #11 (**Post Link**) 20-09-10

Originally Posted by Gaz

that doesnt sound like that much work in reality. its just a lot of ****ty little jobs that can be time consuming i suppose

let me put it this way, there seems to be a bit less work to do on this than there does on my Mini

It does sound like that if I'm honest. It's just that every time I've had a couple of hours and thought "right, let's get one thing done" I find - like the headlamps, something is not quite the same to go on, or the seals need an octopus or a couple of pairs of hands at least. Or I don't know what fixings should be used, since the originals are long gone and I didn't remove all these bits so I tend to get flustered about using the wrong ones etc, etc. Excuses, excuses.

I suppose I should have a structured sequence of jobs to approach it rather than this vague bitty method I've been guilty of using.

I should probably be less worried about removing other stuff too. Sometimes you have to go backwards to make progress.

It doesn't help that you can barely open the doors inside my garage. Yep, another excuse.

Gaz · #12 (**Post Link**) 20-09-10

You will probably find that once you start and complete one job, however small or insignificant you think it may be, you will get a good feeling of satisfaction that progress has been made

It can be daunting thinking 'oh theres loads to do, where do i start' but as you say, sometimes you have to take a step back to take two forward

#13 (**Post Link**) 20-09-10

It doesn't sound that far from being MoTable. I'd be inclined to push to get it up and running and take it from there. Happy to bring my hammers and jump leads round if it helps.

harryf · #14 (**Post Link**) 20-09-10

As a general rule of thumb you are always better off buying a car that someone else did the work on. Although I have never followed my own advice on that matter! Somehow I always feel a loyalty to my cars so probably keep them when I shouldn't.

So assuming you want to keep, financially you can make a case for spending money on the car as a sort of investment. I managed to create a spreadsheet for my wife cleverly showing how restoring my car was significantly cheaper than her having two lattes and a sticky bun a day. It didn't work. But there are worse things to spend money on and it does create an asset that can be converted to cash in the event of a financial crisis.

What you're aiming for doesn't sound that far from my white GT. It has a handling kit, very mildly tweaked engine and cost originally £4,300 3-4 years back. I've spent about 5-6k on various upgrades & sill repairs, it now has a Gripper LSD, uprated brakes etc etc. It has always cost at least £1k a year although each year it has got significantly better. To be honest its probably only worth £5-7k now. I trackday the car a few times a year, use it for local trips and its fine.

Like you I have no real mechanical skills but in respect of that I have come to the conclusion that I am better at earning the money to pay for repairs rather than actually doing them. So I'll put a few hours extra work in to earn the money to pay for a professional. I'm quite happy to potter around doing the time consuming or easy stuff like basic maintenance, points, dashboard & trim fixes, little electrical bugs. But everything else just pay fror a pro.

And don't expect perfection, don't worry if the electrics are a mess. My HRW doesn't operate, the wipers don't self park, dashboard is cracked, the indicators don't self cancel, the water temp guage is intermittent etc etc ad nauseaum. But that doesn't stop me driving it & enjoying it.

Personally I'd stick with a Nord engine because it makes such a great noise. And while 200bhp sounds attractive, to be honest I find 140bhp pretty good (remember the cars are light). Trackday fun isn't necessarily about power, its about handling and how the car feels. And while the GT would be beaten by most modern sports car on time, it does have a unique balanced feel, super throttle control. Plus its a great community.

If you want to sell up & buy anew (the sensible financial decision) I would say that £10k could get you a reasonable prepped car to do 95% of what you want. Not sure its worth the extra £10k for that extra 5%.

I hadn't seen that ad before for the £20k car. A bit suspicious as that car couldn't be run in Top Hat series as shown and 210bhp sounds optimistic. Chris Whelans best Nord engine AFAIK is for Richard Merrill and is around 170bhp. Even the Alfaholics £10k twinsparks only claim 200.

73GTVJim · #15 (**Post Link**) 21-09-10

Gaz thanks for all the encouragement.

Keithy a kind offer I may never take up because I hate putting people out! But maybe.......

Harry thanks for the advice and we seem very alike!

Even as I posted this I think I knew I never wanted to give up on my Bertie.

You just all helped me realise it isn't such a daft idea.

Thanks

Gaz · #16 (**Post Link**) 21-09-10

So wheel out your spanners then

As Keithyboy said, if you wanna hand mate, give us a shout

JonSpiderMan · #17 (**Post Link**) 21-09-10

Definately keep at it Jim, I did consider selling my S2 and going for another one but I've grown quite attached to it and it's little foibles like the fuel guage that goes up and down when I go round corners!, and decided to keep going until it's done... It's quite nice seeing the new bits going on and noticing the improvement.

I've been working on the S2 (well when I say working doing the cosmetic bits like badges and grille and windscreen wipers!) and then paying a mechanic for the complicated stuff like the Carbs and engine for about three years on and off but only when work and funds allow.

I've spent about a 2k so far on it after paying £5K for it 5 years ago, I bought it from Richard Merill that Harryf mentioned earlier funilly enough! so it was already mechanically good and benefits from a safety devices rollbar as he used to use it on the track days so you may have seen it at castle combe a few years back Harryf.

It's nearly (although I did say this last year) going to be ready for it's MOT early next year as it still needs some welding and one of the rear panel sections needs replacing which I've bought from alfaholics already, I reckon it'll cost me another 1-2K to get it properly sorted and back on the road, but I keep it turned over and run it the other day and it sounded great with the twin webers..

wayne-dear · #18 (**Post Link**) 21-09-10

Jim, put a post in the NW section; A day at Jim's BBQ, free food and beer, all you have to do is work on my car for a while, i for one would be there to help.

Gaz · #19 (**Post Link**) 21-09-10

i dont know if Jim would go for that but its a brilliant idea! Your best one yet!

rmaxeman · #20 (**Post Link**) 21-09-10

What the others have said, there are plenty around who would gladly lend you a hand if you need it mate

wayne-dear · #21 (**Post Link**) 21-09-10

Originally Posted by Gaz

i dont know if Jim would go for that but its a brilliant idea! Your best one yet!

I am sure Jim and Jim jnr would, Mrs Jim would go ape though......' how many'....

#22 (**Post Link**) 21-09-10

Originally Posted by 73GTVJim

Gaz thanks for all the encouragement.

Keithy a kind offer I may never take up because I hate putting people out! But maybe.......

Harry thanks for the advice and we seem very alike!

Even as I posted this I think I knew I never wanted to give up on my Bertie.

You just all helped me realise it isn't such a daft idea.

Thanks

Don't think of it as putting people out. You just happen to own one of my favourite cars. Just looking at it would put a smile on my face.

73GTVJim · #23 (**Post Link**) 21-09-10

Wayne you know Lisa too well! Should I be checking phone records?

Really not a bad idea though as an excuse for some beery assessment!

Careful Keith don't forget you really are local!

All great, cheering posts lads. Thanks all of you.

wayne-dear · #24 (**Post Link**) 21-09-10

Originally Posted by 73GTVJim

Wayne you know Lisa too well! Should I be checking phone records?

Really not a bad idea though as an excuse for some beery assessment!

Careful Keith don't forget you really are local!

All great, cheering posts lads. Thanks all of you.

I would even supply fresh rolls and baps..

Gaz · #25 (**Post Link**) 21-09-10

and pasties?

New To Site?	Need Help?
Register to Participate The AO Staff Contact Us	Frequently Asked Questions Did you forget your password? Mark Forums Read

Did you know..?
	Clicking the small triangle on the right hand side of every post will take you to the top of the page. Very handy as you can instantly reach the site navigation bar!