The German Un-Reliability Thread

Bought a VW Golf TDI last year, brand new.. In the first year it went back to the dealers no fewer than 5 times for warranty repair issues, mind you none were engine or main running gear related, but niggly annoying things like electric folding mirrors that refused to fold out etc. Must say compared to the Italian cars i've owned it is faultless. I once owned a Lancia Thema 8.32 and going up the A11 one day it decided to blow the output seals on the gearbox. The cost of the repair more or less wrote the car off! I ended up swapping what was left of the car for a Fiat Tipo Sedicivalvole with the garage owner!! There was a stark difference in cabin quality & performance, but at least I managed to get home! Let's face it, German cars are what they are.. Bland, characterless chunks of metal spot welded together by robots that run on time and are efficiently maintained by Hans and his efficient team of technicians. Whereas Italian cars are made by guys who don't even turn up for work for the whole of August! Don't even start me on the Japanese.. I had a Honda Civic just before the Golf. Had it for 2 years from new. Not even a bulb blew on it!

This thread's a bit bitter isn't it? Isn't this an Alfa forum, not an anti-German-car forum????

And to the person who mentioned the Vauxhall Frontera...they are a Japanese make (it's an Isuzu) built in the US IIRC.

Has anyone had a broken down honda yet? It seems that they are bullet proof. I have had a few Honda engined Rovers and they just keep going. The body work falls apart mind..

I know all cars have their problems by the way, its just nice to hear of other brands problems and not just Alfa's. After all it is Alfa's that are supposed to be unreliable..

I find people with German cars have very selective memories when it comes service costs.

Whenever my Alfa goes in for any repairs I get the jibes at work about buying Italian what do I expect.

Yet whenever anyone asks about their cars reliability it is always claimed to be faultless. But I do seem to recall one lady having now two headgaskets, gearbox and rad on her 318, whilst my boss has had a new dashboard, Vanos, clutch and propshaft on their 530i.

I part-x'd my VW Bora when the gearbox was about to explode. I got told it was a weak point, and that most of them on the VW 1.6 engine from that year would go pop, but as it was out of warranty there's nothing that could be done. It couldn't be repaired either, it had to have a new one (£1300!). It only had 33,000 miles on it.

It was a really nice car though, I'd have kept that one for ages if it hadn't gone wonky.

Originally Posted by tremolo

This thread's a bit bitter isn't it? Isn't this an Alfa forum, not an anti-German-car forum????

And to the person who mentioned the Vauxhall Frontera...they are a Japanese make (it's an Isuzu) built in the US IIRC.

A response to one or two similarly bitter threads about how "bad" alfas are, methinks.

Originally Posted by symonh2000

Has anyone had a broken down honda yet? ..

Yes, plenty.

VTEC's eat oil and if youre not careful.....yes just like Alfa they blame the driver. Some burn oil badly evn when new.

The Jazz is a nightmare as well, I have been involved with 2 which were rejected, bad for such a simple car.

Honda owners tend to be older or a bit smug, so dont complain, I havent found their dealer service to be much cop either.

My father's last job was with the AA, according to him, Toyota's dont break down, everything else else is much the same, though the French seem to have the same recurring problems that the manufacturers dont address.

On Alfa's, they dont break any more frequently, but the dealers take an age to repair them.

The bogey car they had that no-one wanted to go to was an Elise that broke down once a week and as the AA were contracted by Lotus, the AA patrolman or recovery driver took all the abuse from the exasperated owner.

So if you want a good chance of reliability - get a Toyota, though as they dont get a lot of faults - the dealers are very slow at diagnosis and repair!

Originally Posted by symonh2000

Has anyone had a broken down honda yet? It seems that they are bullet proof. .

No break downs, but the Civic I had was so badly put together it suffered numerous creaks and groans. It was also a nightmare to drive with the cam-shift kicking in at precisely the wrong combination of revs and gearing at all the wrong times and well dodgy handling. Reliable and frugal but one of the most disappointing cars I have owned.

Any Hondas I've been near since feel like they're made of tin foil.

This is a great thread for me as I've had nothing but VWs until my 159.

Mk 2 Polo C 1999-2000 - constant running problems, fuel tank replaced, carb replaced and it would stall randomly even whilst driving. In its defence it had stood for 8 years until I bothered to learn to drive. Oh and we had forgotten it was converted to unleaded.

Mk 3 Polo 1.4 TDi - 2000 - 2002 - brake lights came on and stayed on for about three hours until the brake pedal collapsed locking the brakes on. I had to use 1st gear for a mile to get it to the garage, which was fun. Apparently there was no problem to fix other than a faulty switch that controlled the lights. Rear wash wipe pipe burst pouring water into the rear of the car. There was something else but I'm old and confused these days.

Mk4 Polo 1.9 TDi - 2002 - 2006 - Tyres cracked around the rim of the tread within 3 weeks, garage tried to tell me I had to replace the tyres at my cost and get them sent to the manufacturer for replacement, erm No! Front suspension replaced twice, rear replaced 3 times, and they weren't going to do that until I completely slated them in a random VW UK customer service questionnaire call. (Would you like to answer some questions about your local dealer? You bet I do!) Rear wash pipe burst, and then after going in for one of the warranty jobs a very evil smell from the washers which I never managed to get rid of.

Mk 5 Golf GTI - 2006 - 2007 Slightly sticky folding mirror, sorted without fuss at the service. I used different dealership to my local one for purchase and service.

Alfa 159 - 2007 - ? Odd noise from the rear offside wheel need to get it looked at after my holiday. Nearside door mirror had come off it's spindle and didn't fold properly, dealer wasn't really interested said get it done send invoice but basically wanted me off the phone. I got a friend who is 156 trained to sort it for a beer. Need tonnes of revs to stop it stalling in 1st and very 'crunchy' gear change into and out of 2nd feels like it doesn't disengage properly. Oh and blatantly lied to about having Blue&Me ("I saw the USB port in the glove box" - a direct quote) the car only has Bluetooth, my fault for not double checking on the test drive. I need to find a decent I-Pod kit that will connect up properly. I have to say the dealer did a great job with the sale but the handover was very rushed and they seemed amazed that I took the tax out the Golf and were almost unpleasant about it.

Despite the niggles I just love the 159 though

MkII Golf GTi

Engine blew up on motorway at 125K miles. Con rod pushed through front block.

Mum's brand new BMW 318i. Back to the garage for over night stays at least 3 times in the first year to fix various problems.

My old mans 2001 X5 4.4i Sport

Kept falling into safety mode and cut out completely twice.


The battery fitted wasn't powerful enough. It was in and out the garage constantly for 4 months.

No, but it does count as pretty phenomenal service!

As far as I can see this isn't out of the ordinary for BMW!

My dad's BMW's battery went dead, at 12.30pm on a Monday eve, BMW service were out with a new one, fitted it, took the old one away, checked the system, and my dad was allowed on his way

Thats basically been his only problem in 9 yrs of ownership.

For me, my m3 suffered a broken fuel pipe by the tank, BMW emergency service sent a truck over to collect my car, but as it was late at night with no garages open they brought me home (20 odd miles) then returned at 7.30 am the following day to collect the car and take it to the local dealer, I also had a cab arranged for me to take me to work, where upon I was given a hire car to use till my car was fixed. THEY then brought my m3 back to my house, collected the hire car and the job 's a good un! I was impressed. As for servicing costs, well it was an expensive car to maintain.

Originally Posted by symonh2000

Has anyone had a broken down honda yet?

Yes....my neighbours 5 year old Civic broke down about 2 months ago.

It was through poor maintenance though, so I got it going again after he ploughed about £30 into parts.

As mentioned before, basically all car makers have cars that will break down.

My personal opinion is that the art of looking after your car and checking levels etc has been lost.

I mentioned Ms Emms Beemer and my neighbours Honda. None of the problems they had would have happened to me. I've told Ms Emm to check stuff (it's really her car) and since the low oil thing she has...and topped up when necessary.

When I learned to drive, people checked there cars weekly and seemed more aware of slight problem developing with running etc before they became a major hassle and caused them to break down.

Even cars are being made for the drivers who need a nanny. Engine covers, no dip sticks (you use the onboard computer to check the oil level) etc. Even things like traction control I think take the "art" out of driving and stops people learning to handle a car properly.

Someone said Beemers are bland, boring etc and blah blah......

Not true. They are different from our Alfas, that's all. I posted a review on our Beemer a while back. Basically on long trips we take the Beemer as it is a better "cruiser" or "Tourer" than my 156, which is snarly and noisy and encourages a different driving style. The 170bhp beemer is probably just as quick, handles extremely well and feels great through bends with its RWD.

Is it a better car ??.....I don't think so, but Ms Emm does. Is it boring ??....No. It just doesn't rattle and rasp as much as the Alfa so you don't have as much drama when pushing on.

I've got a Mercedes C class estate which has a few niggles, mainly central locking related but it's behaved itself since the warranty has finished - touch wood. Also have a 51 plate Mondeo estate (Belgian so nearly German) - replacement clutch a few months back otherwise okay since new.

Neither of these thrill like the 75 did when it was running (or the 1.7 Sprint I used to have), but neither do they present me with big bills every couple of months or leave me stranded with kids and dogs. I'm afraid my future Alfa motoring will be of the hobby variety only (provided the 75 ever runs again or I ever have the necessary time to look after a 105 series Giulia!). At the risk of upsetting a few people on here, I can't say I'm a huge fan of the new generation of Alfas, although the designs are still very smart. I think they have become too mainstream (to be fair out of necessity for Alfa to survive) and for me personally don't offer enough to compensate for the extra hassle of running one e.g. long drives to rubbish dealers when things do go wrong (If it's any consolation, Mercedes dealers are far from perfect as well!)

My dad bought his 3.2 CLK new in '99 and had a trouble starting it.. Sometimes it started normally and others it sounded like the battery was flat. Took it to the merc dealer and fixed the problem for a bit, but then the problem was back! He changed the battery but still the same today with 40,000 miles up. Been a great car overall, but the rust He has rust bubbles on all four arches, and he car has been garaged nearly all is life
He had a 164 before this and will probably buy another Alfa next!<