Saw a Triumph Stag for sale today...

Looked in beautiful condition, although I only gave it a 30 second look whilst walking past. Could be seriously tempted, but is it bordering on masochism to have both an Alfa and a Stag? If I decided to bite, I'd obviously get it thoroughly checked out first...

It isn't bordering, you can't even see the border from where you're standing May as well do it

Rich

All of the Stags nasty faults are pretty much history now. The main problem was with the Triumph V8 overheating and blowing head gaskets. Finding one with its original engine untouched and repaired is very unlikely. Otherwise they are reliable, easy to work on, spares are easy to get and they make a fabulous V8 noise.

As long as you remember its a show car only to be used gently.

When I worked in warranty we quite literally had people on the phone in tears over their Stags reliability problems.

The engines overheated (this has been cured..speak to owners club) and warped the heads, but the angle of the valves meant you could only get away with one small head skim..then it was new heads.

The engine power was kept down as it was too much for the gearbox..which often broke, and the crank journals were on the small side too as they had the same dimensions as the four cylinder Dolomite/TR7 engine. (TR7..the most badly made car ever in this country )

The differential was not really strong enough, and the rear drive shafts could suffer "wind up" as the joints stuck at having too much power put through them.

I was at school with a lad whose dad worked on "Project Stag" in about 1968/9. As usual we were promised a 'Merc beater', and yes it was, and is such an elegant car. It was just woefully under engineered/developed in an underfunded industry already losing money.

As a car for gentle tooling around to car shows and the odd weekend run out into the country, then its ideal, but don't expect it to be a daily user thats all.

AlfaLincs

Thanks for the replies. Against my better judgment, I've called the seller and have agreed to take it for a test drive when he gets back from his honeymoon, in early June. The car seems to have fsh back to 1985, and has a 1 year old soft top. It has the original engine and box, and according to the seller is fine for days out - I live in London so it wouldn't be used daily anyway. Bearing in mind I ideally also need a car that can gobble up 1000m continental drives, I'm buggered if I know what I'm doing with an Alfa and (potentially) a Stag - if I get this I'll probably buy a banger to keep abroad and forget about driving from country to country

AlfaLincs - if I end up going forwards with this, I'll be getting somebody in to look at it first, but do you have any suggestions of things to ask / look at in addition to your really helpful post above? If you could message me or email me at kopbadger@gmail.com I'd really appreciate it.

I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole unless it had been fitted with a Rover V8. They don't call them the Triumph Snag for nothing.

Quite a nice looking car though.

Speak to this lot. They will tell all.

Stag Owners Club: Welcome

AlfaLincs

AlfaLincs - thanks for the info and the PM :thumbup:

symonh2000 - I know what you mean. Reading around on the net the recommendation seems to be for a full oil and coolant change every 3 months (or 3,000 miles, which I wouldn't do in a year) which seems a bit much, although obviously I'm familiar with the problems with the Triumph V8.

Going to have a look at it in early June and then decide whether to take it further.

Good luck with it mate. They are a nice car, but obviously they need looking after.
Owning an Alfa has probably prepared you well for that though.

Cheers again. I'm still not 100% sure about it - even if the car checks out fine I'd be worried about leaving it outside my flat, which would mean getting a garage or lock up, and the cost of the car + running costs + garage may be too much to be sensible right now. If it was a bit of a banger I'd have no concerns, but it looks immaculate (based on a quick walk round though) and I'd like to keep it that way. Plan B (which would be a more sensible one anyway) would be to get a two-seater like MGB or Spitfire which may be a little less likely to attract attention.

I'll try to find this thread in June and let you know how I've got on.

I'd strongly suggest you need a lock up at the very least. UV will wreck the hood and the paintwork, any vandalism would give you a terrible parts problem.

I'd not be too bothered about the 3,000 miles fluid changes. What would bother me is that the timing chains (not belts) have to be changed every 25,000 miles. I'm pretty sure they are single row (simplex) chains, and quite long as well, which means they do stretch and wear out in a way that Alfa chains (double row/duplex) do not.

You have to remember that this was Triumphs first attempt at overhead camshafts=longer chains. Also they were quite constrained over bonnet space which may be one of the reasons they used an inferior single row chain to keep the engine short. When people put Rover V8s into Stags they ended up with two radiators either side of the engine which is longer than the Triumph unit.

Like I said before. IMHO The Stag is not a suitable daily driver or an only car. It simply won't take the strain. Its a weekend and show car that needs a lot of cosseting in between.

I'm sorry to put a downer on it, but you really would be better off with an Alfa...of course..or an MGB....much easier to look after..cast iron lump, spares situation pretty good, loads around in good nick

AlfaLincs

Nothing wrong with a Rover V8 engined one, but in the long run the original engine will add to value. I agree, about meticulous servicing - particularly on the coolant side.

Stags were notoriously the most stolen classic car a few years ago.

I have a Dolly Sprint and the good bit is that parts for 70's Triumphs are plentiful (some repro parts are poor quality) and Stags are not the worst cars for corrosion. Lovely feelgood factor with that 'whoof' noise from the V8 and the smart interior. Not a car for parking in a street and using all year round though.

Everything (and more) than I thought as I read your OP has been better put by Alfalincs and David so I'll just add total agreement.

+ Lovely 4 seat tourer, nice looks, great sound,usually pretty sorted mechanically these days, should be good for occasional gentle long distance cruises, good parts availability and club support.

- Not to be parked outdoors, not sporty, not suitable for daily/hard driving, potentially unreliable original engine if not correctly updated and maintained.

Good luck either way.

Thanks all yet again. Very sensible comments which I will take on board.

Well, it's the garaging thing that is the biggest cause for concern at the moment - I'm going to call the agaents who manage the property I live in to enquire about getting access to one of the garages that are around the back - as far as I know, they're not all in use although the cost may be prohibitive. Thinking further about it, I'd definitely need one actually, as I don't think I'd win any popularity competitions at home if I had to keep the hard top in the spare bedroom when not in use.

AlfaLincs - as before, your comments about the timing chain are right in all respects as I understand it - without the apparent FSH I wouldn't even look at this. Oddly enough I have actually been offered a decent MGB by a friend, and may go ahead with that if I don't go for the Stag. Much more sensible in almost every way, but a poor second in terms the aesthetics and overall desireability and of course, no V8 - but at least I'd be pretty confident of being able to do much of the work on that myself.

As for being a daily runner, don't worry about that - my daily car will continue to be that paragon of reliability, my 156

Edited to add that in fairness to my Alfa, it has (touch wood) been reliable, but then I do look after it as though it was my first born. I don't want to unfairly perpetuate the legend that buying an Alfa automatically means a season ticket to the nearest garage.

To add an addendum, my dad had a stag it was a fantastic car! we changed the water pump from a 6 to a 12 vane impeller and that was the end of the high temp running problems. e.g. we used to tow a boat the weighed nearly 1.5 tons on a braked trailer.

The rover is a good engine but its a dinosaur compared to the stag unit, chain driven cans to push rod, it would be like changing a 105 alfa engine for a 711M ford!

The car had a few peculiarities like diff lock up cornering fast but other wise it was difficult to fault. He used it as a second car until it was damaged in a fire and he hadn't realised the insurance had lapsed - theres a lesson!!!!!

What SymonH said.: The Rover V8,(former American compact motor,??) was a much in demand unit, by the customisers when 'I were a Lad' so worth hunting,(Stag?) one down, with that lightweight alloy power plant, imho.:

The fall in half engines are long gone. Any original engines that have survived this long are the good ones and far more economical than a gutsy V8. And they still have a lovely burble.

Do check thoroughly for rot - inside the hood stow, under the back seats (they lift out) and under the carpets.

They are a lovely classy car.

Therein was the problem with some remembered stags, single rather than duplex chain drive to the camshaft sprockets?? Did the introductionary course at Rovers, back in the sixties, on the then newly introduced V8.

Enough 'push' with the rods, for power, and pretty reliable too, imo.: 40,K up on my Big Cats that I loved in that era, meant chains, sprockets, and tensioners, but I absolutely loved the big felines, in spite of their wearing out bits!

I think a stag with a moderately tuned Rover engine, possibly from a TVR would be the buisness, especially the 5 litre 320bhp version from the Griffith 500.

Who cars if it does have pushrods, its an awesome engine in that state of tune.

Unfortunately,putting more power into a Stag just moves the problems further back, as the transmission was an ever so slightly beefed up version of the 2.5pi box, and not really able to cope with anything like 200 BHP. This did not help the transmission 'lock up' at the back which was caused by too much torque in the driveshafts. The design could not take it, so this could lead to diff problems as well. You have to keep the power demands fairly modest for all the bits to work together properly.

There's nothing at all wrong with the Rover V8 engine, in fact in most respects it is the superior unit, but I'd have thought that at this stage of its life as a true 'classic' the real value is in keeping the car as original as possible. This will certainly count at resale time. Collectors will only be intrested in originals, and I think they are a genuine collectors car.

AlfaLincs

The fall in half engines are long gone. Any original engines that have survived this long are the good ones

That thought had crossed my mind too. Whilst the woes of the engine are familiar - when I was a kid the Stag engine was used in our household as a metaphorical equivalent of the Bogey Man, to the extent that the first time I saw a Stag in real life I was amazed that it wasn't enveloped in clouds of steam and smoke. I was working on the assumption that if an engine was going to expire, it would have done so sooner rather than later, and that if it's made it so far it may, if well maintained, make it a bit further.

Just been looking at garage rental costs on Gumtree for my neck of the woods (NW London) and they're not as bad as I thought they might be - £40pw in Kilburn - I was guessing more in the £100pw sort of range. Puts a slightly different perspective on things if that's a fairly easy to find price. The seller is on honeymoon for the next couple of weeks so I have plenty of time to procrastinate further.

Thanks again for the comments and advice.

Well, minor update if anyone is interested

I've been to have a look at one today - but not the one I was on about above. The body has had a bare-metal rebuild and is pretty much faultless, has a new hood, SS exhaust and is generally sound, although it needs quite a bit of work on the interior. No hard top - unlike the first Stag.

The engine - well, it looked and sounded great, but drove a little more roughly than I was expecting. I know it's an old car, and I have nothing to compare it against, but the lack of much in the way of a service history for the engine is probably a deal-breaker. Given the thousands spent on the body (and documented), I'm inclined to think that the owner before the current one may have started restoring it and moved it on before completing the mechanicals.

I've told the current owner (who seems like a very genuine bloke who has to sell it as he no longer has the use of a garage) that I've already committed to looking at the other one on London and that I'll get back to him in a couple of weeks, and that if I do, I'll have to get it checked out by somebody who knows their way around a Triumph V8.

My gut feeling is that it's not for me - I know these cars will need a lot of TLC, but I'm not sure that a potential, precautionary, full engine service plus all the interior work (dash, front seats) is really something that I either want to do or to pay for right now. Plus, the lack of a hardtop would bump the price pretty close to the cost of the London one - I know a hardtop in some ways defeats the point of a Stag, but (according to Mrs Seabadger) it was pretty claustrophobic in the back with the hood up.

Cheers again

P.S. There was an immaculate GTV Spider on sale here a while ago for the same sort of money - if it had been anywhere nearer than Derbyshire I would have gone to have a look, and possibly should. I do sometimes wonder if something like that may not make a little more sense in some ways.