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Anyone got pics of 17s on 156 (the selespeed alloys)

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17s alloys
5K views 80 replies 24 participants last post by  John Selespeed 
#1 ·
I'm thinking of getting some 17inch versions of the Selespeed Alfa alloys for my 156 but wanted to see how they looked on a 156.

Does anyone have any pics of a 156 with 17" versions of the selespeed alloys (ideally on a blue car but just hoping :).
 
#35 ·
i got the 16" selespeeds (although why there called that i dont know as they were an option on mine?)

anyway, the 16's are heavy as hell so dread to think what the 17's are, all that unsprung weight:eek::eek::eek:

and the 16" teles iv got ready to go on,are noticably lighter:cool:
 
#37 ·
ooooh there rare:eek: nice:thumbs: teardrops:lol:
 
#49 ·
yeah i must have suddenly got weaker the split second i went from one to the other??:lol:

baring in mind mine are both 16" both same tyres and the selespeed is heavier, just fact as there both here with me:lol:

and 8kgs all round will make heck of a difference to the overall ride, crashiness, and handling, also less effort for the engine to get the car rolling, better on components, all adds up:thumbs:
 
#41 · (Edited)
At work today so had a chance to weigh the wheels

GTA wheel with no tyre - 10.4kg
GTA wheel with 225/45 tyre - 19.9kg
Selespeed with 215/45 tyre - 21.9kg

Not really definitive because the tyres could weigh different amounts but does show the Selespeed to be heavier than the GTA

By comparison I believe the 16" wheels are about 10kg and the 17" GTV Teledial is about 11.5kg

Edit: added 17" GTV Teledial for visual comparison
 
#46 ·
2kg of unsprung weight is a heck of a lot IMHO, glad you mentioned tyre weights though, as a kid I used to fit/repair tyres, and they can be heavy..
Personally I love the GTA 17"s, followede by the 17" GTV teles, and don't like the seles at all, but do think Alfas look better with Alfa wheels.

I would also say unless your on a track, the benefits of lighter wheels and or lower profile tyres is minimal, on most of the twisty roads around here I could cruise at 10-15mph over the limit - in the GF's Picasso, and thats like a boat, with a leak:eek:

Get the wheels you like, its your car, and you enjoy it your way:thumbs:
 
#42 ·
Still none the wiser then.

No one doubts the GTA is the "better" and lighter alloy. My argument is that the standard Selespeed alloy is no heavier than the standard teledial.
 
#43 ·
By standard you mean 16" ?

I would think they would be pretty much the same weight at about 10kg, maybe Selespeed a bit heavier?
 
#44 ·
As it happens, I've just replaced a 17" Selespeed wheel on my wife's 156! So in the interests of informed debate, I've just nipped out an weighed it. 11.1kg (including valve and balance weights).

Here's a photo of my wife's 156 on them when we bought it.



I think they look nice (which is more than can be said for the wing!) but it's worth getting a tyre with good anti-kerbing protection! This car happens to be on 215/45 tyres instead of the 225s it's supposed to have. I think the ride is absolutely atrocious compared to her old 1.8 Twinspark, which was on skinny little ?195?- (can't remember now!) 60 profile tyres and steel wheels, but I don't know if Alfa did anything to the spring or damper rates on the JTS Turismo compared to the 1.8 Twink.

For what it's worth, I think any deterioration in ride quality will have a lot to do with the reduction in sidewall depth. You'll need to do that if you're going to keep the speedo accurate. The reason I've just replaced the wheel is becasue she hit a pothole and cracked the rim! There's just not enough rubber there to cope with our local roads (rural Cumbria) and it's not like she drives it hard! (Does anyone know if Series III Landrover wheels will fit a 156)?!

More seriously, I'd be very interested in swapping her current set of 17" Selespeeds with tyres for a complete set of 16" ones with tyres. Although the 17" ones look good, I reckon it's only a matter of time before she breaks another one!

(Oh, and while I'm on, if anyone has a blue (Alfa code 693) bootlid without that stupid "Max Power" spoiler on it, I'd happily swap that too)!
 
#45 ·
My wife drives my other V6 156 and I had always planned to change the wheels when I bought it.........but currently keeping the 15" wheels with 205/60 tyres on - dont look great but certainly safer for the alloys :lol:
 
#47 ·
2 kg per wheel is 8kg for the whole car.

Beleive me Jason156 the benefits of lighter wheels ARE NOT minimal on the road, I can tell you from experience it makes a hell of a difference. And I m not the only one to think it: http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tuning-and-upgrades/179886-tyre-pressure-temp-gadget.html

I think its obvious just from looking at the selespeeds that theyre going to be heavier as theres so much more metal in them-evry part is way thincker than the selespeeds

What a can of worms youve opened, John Selespeed!
 
#48 ·
All I can say is that to benefit from any handling mods, my V6 would have to be going around bends so fast there would be no reaction times if a slower car tractor or whatever was in the way, surely its not safe on the road to drive beyond the speed that you can see/react too?
Ther is a 3/4 mile straight near me that I can travel down with no cars in front, round a bend and onto a 200yard straight, where I've frequently had to brake hard due to people dawdling at the limit, let alone anything slower (caravanners :eek:) that maybe on the road.
I did have a friend in a 911 carrera s4 following me on this road and while he says I'd not be able to keep up with him, he couldn't SAFELY get past me.....
In saying that mine still has 16" teles, and I've not tried anything else...So you have an advantage over me there.And I'd love a set of GTA Teles, (preferably attaced to a GTA:lol:)
 
#51 ·
Maybe you misunderstood my post, I said it would not be of any benefit on the road, not that it wouldn't improve things, well thats what I meant to say.
My mates porker is 4wd and on paper much quicker than my car (and then some!) but in terms of safe cornering speeds in the real world, on twisty welsh roads, he and I share a similar limit of "thats fast enough, any faster is dangerous" regardless of handling capability.
I could not drive faster safely than I do now, bearing in mind there are other people using the roads I drive on, you cannot safely horse around corners at 125mph+ with out something serious happening sometime soon, unless your on a track, where you can, and will see huge benefit from reduced unsprung weight (and Q2)
What limits my cornering speeds, low or high is what I can see of the road in front, and going around a corner, thats not too far, maybe whizzing around islands with good visibility I can see some room for improvement....
 
#52 ·
Woah! Can of worms indeed!
Seriously though, I do appreciate your help/comments guys even though as a result I am now a little more confused.


I know I really like the look of 17" Selespeeds and maybe the teardrops ones but don't like Teledials or GTA wheels. However the comments on ride quality do concern me so still unsure about whether to just stick with my 16" Selespeeds...


At the moment though cornering speeds and unsprung weight is somewhat irrelevant to me since today my car doesn't want to select any other gear than 1st :(


Still if anyone is thinking of selling their 17" alloys (that aren't Teledials or GTAs) I still might be interested.
 
#53 ·
well smaller tyres will affect your ride quality anyway, regardless of how heavy they are, they will be louder too. so hopefully ride quality is not your main consideration:thumbs:
 
#54 ·
wow, those on 15" alloys must have to wear ear muffs when driving! :rolleyes:

As you can guess, I still think you're making mountains out of molehills. It's not that what you are saying has no credence, it's just that the differences will not (are not) noticed by the vast majority of drivers.
 
#56 · (Edited)
Yes, I dont know why you were banging on about hairing round corners at high speed and safe handling limits. It seems you think the term "handling" means you have to go fast. It doesnt-"handling " applies to the cars behaviour on the road (at any speed). Ride means how well the car deals with bumps (at any speed). Therefore adding extra unsprung weight will make a difference at any speed, whether you pootle about at 25mph or do 175. Its basic physics. Anyway the most noticable problem with the 17 seles was the very very crashy bangy ride, I m sure if they were on the car any longer all of the internal fittings would be in a pile on the floor of the-you could really feel the whole structure shaking (and see the dash wobbling) with the impact of bumps that now barely make any impression, despite the wheels having 18s.

I have noticed MAJOR improvements in both ride and handling because of lighter wheels. Maybe you misunderstood me, Jason156 and thought I used my car on the track? You say its no benefit on the road but I keep trying to tell you that it makes a huge difference at all speeds ON THE ROAD cos of the reduced unsprung weight

Reallly unless youve experienced wheels that are a lot lighter as well its pointless discussing it with you as youve not been able to experience the difference and are just making assumptions.
 
#58 ·
Accepted :)
 
#57 ·
If you are looking for comfort then stay with 16" wheels, the lower profile of 17" tyres will have a dramatic effect on the tyres ability to absorb shocks regardless of wheel weight. Also tyres vary greatly in their weight and sidewall stiffness.

Any reduction in unsprung weight will have a big difference, helping the suspension to work more efficiently, Alfa make many suspension components from light weight alloy for a reason ;)
 
#59 ·
exactly:thumbs:
 
#60 ·
It's worth keeping a sense of perspective here though!

The unsprung weight on a front corner will be made up of the wheel, tyre, wheel nuts, stub axle, hub, wheelbearings, brake disc, brake calliper (and pads), outer CV joint, hub nut, track rod end, brake backplate, ABS sensor, about half the weight of the anti roll bar drop links, the spring, the moving part of the damper, and about 1/3 of the weight of the wishbones, trackrod, anti-roll bar and driveshaft. At the front that's likely to be a fair chunk of weight - 50+kg???

I have to say that I don't think I'd be able to spot the difference 2kg made in that lot, and if I did, I'd be looking for a nice light set of steel wheels! (and a job with McLaren)!

If reducing the unsprung weight made THAT much difference, there would be a lot more cars around with inboard brakes (the biggest single difference that can reasonably be made). The move towards the use of aluminium has, I think, been as much to do with the manufacturer's obligations for improved recyclability as anything else! When you feel the weight of Alfa's alloy top wishbone assembly it's pretty easy to see that they could have made it in steel - perhaps even lighter but certainly without appreciable weight penalty. At the very least Alfa could fit gas-pressurised dampers "upside-down" to reduce unsprung weight if it was THAT important!

No, My money is firmly on the reduction is sidewall depth being responsible for the poor ride!
 
#62 ·
No one is arguing with you. The point is, you implied the Selespeeds were a really heavy wheel to be avoided at all costs and what we are saying is, if you are happy with something like the 17" GTV teledial,(as are many Alfisti) you will be happy with a 17" Selespeed and you should choose the wheel on what style you prefer.
 
#64 ·
Trimming down your own weight or the weight of the car wont make any difference as its UNSPRUNG weight that is the problem, not sprung weight

I was surprised but the difference is VERY noticable, maybe not if youre going from 17" seles to 17" teledials, but if youre going from 16s (like John Selespeed) to the heaviest 17s or lighter 18s like me) you will notice it a lot more as the weight differences are greater than between the 17 seles and teles

I like the design of the selespeed, its just very heavy, "I m not putting them down". Youre just offended, Spider95 because you have those wheels, like its a personal insult or something. Its not. Try wheels that are 2kg or more lighter each, then your ll notice the difference.

Anyway, think you have enough people's opinion now John Selespeed, time to make a decision!
 
#65 ·
the weight of the wheels will make a huge difference, 2kg per wheel is alot, its not only the unsprung weight that is reduced it is a rotating mass, centrifugal force makes a big difference

try putting a 10kg weight on a rope, spin it around, then try it with an 8kg weight, there will be a big difference in the effort it takes to spin it and the ammout it pulls on your arm as it spins, again tyre weights come into this too but you dont want to compromise too much weight if it means you loose grip sooner due to a poor tyre choice

it can get very complicated very quickly

if the way the car feels to drive is important to you (at any speed) then get the lightest option you can, if you are more concerned about the look of the car then choose which ever you think looks best :thumbs:
 
#66 ·
If you then took your 8 or 10 kg and instead of having it as a lump on the end of a piece of string, you arranged it in a circle (like a wheel!) you'd actually find that all the forces cancelled out because they were evenly distributed! Now, if you're talking about the effort required to get the wheel up to speed, then that's a different thing. Here. there MIGHT be a difference in the 8 and the 10kg wheel depending on how far from the centre the bulk of the mass is. That's the wheel's "moment of inertia". A wheel with a lot of mass in the spokes will be easier to accelerate up to speed than one of the same mass that has most of its weight nearer the rim. If you then stick a tyre round the outside of it all, it will make a very significant difference because the weight of the tyre is further frm the centre than any of the wheel itself! But none of this makes much difference to ride quality.

Typos1 why are you so certain that going to a larger diameter wheel made such a difference to your ride quality? Surely you would have had to change the tyres at the same time? How can you be sure it is the weight of the wheel and nothing to do with the tyres that made the difference?
 
#67 ·
Because when you go from 17s with 45 section tyres to 18s with 40 section tyres you normally get a worse ride, not a better one. You surely cant be saying that thinner walled tyres give a better ride ?

And on top of that when I swapped the wheels over I was appalled at their weight and realised then that the reason for all the severe bangs and crashes was the weight of the wheels.
 
#68 ·
I agree that one wouldn't normally expect going down from a 45 to a 40 aspect ratio tyre (assuming they are the same width) to improve the ride, but to then say it's proof that the difference was due to the weight of the wheels is too big a logic step for me! When you change more than one thing at the same time, it's very hard to be certain which bit has made the difference - especially when the difference is something as subjective as ride quality!

Clearly the tyres weren't the same as the ones on the smaller wheels but were they the same make? the same model? were they the same width? were they being run at the same pressure?

Don't get me worng, I'm perfectly willing to believe that unsprung mass DOES make a difference to both ride and handling, I'm just sceptical when it comes to the assertion that it's possible to tell the difference when you're only loosing 2kg per corner out of (say) 50! I know that the difference between (say) a live axle and a de-Dion setup in a very light car like a Caterham can make a difference but that's a MUCH bigger change in the ratio of sprung to unsprung weight than we're talking about here.
 
#69 ·
Ok guys I really appreciate all of your comments and advice but didn't mean to start an argument (or even a heated debate : ).

I am still not sure but I have a feeling if I do manage to find some 17" Selespeeds that I'll just give them a go. If they really are like driving on wooden wheels hehe (i.e. unbearable in my point of view) I can always swap back.

Cheers again lads now we can all Chillax lol and I can try and figure out the real problem - my car's inability to get out of 1st gear :cry:
 
#70 ·
UPDATE:
Ok so I swapped my 16" Selespeed alloys with Ian for his 17" set with one with a dented & kurbed rim(I think "AVOCET" is his username) a little over a week ago. I can report there is obviously a drop in ride quality as would be expected.

HOWEVER personally I don't think it is terrible, the 156 has a firm ride anyway (I remember thinking after I bought it gosh this is a crashy car- and that was on 16s) but you get used to it. So if you realistically expect a drop in ride quality (altough I don't think it is unpleasant and I am sure I will get used to it- already am a little) then I would definately recommend 17" Selespeeds!

Oh and bloomin heck they look the dogs!

Cheers for thoughts tho guys and thanks again to Ian!
 
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