F1 2007 Season

[AlfaJack]

Hamilton will not want to win it by default, he will want to do it on the track im sure. People seem to pick up on his mistakes all too much - dont we all make mistakes during the learning process!

Agree with Seles, team should be docked points, not the drivers - it wasnt the drivers fault after all.

[73GTVJim]

Originally Posted by Kevin Slegg

The physical copy of the documents, as I understand it, were Ferrari property and hence he was permanently depriving Ferrari of those physical documents; that is theft regardless whether the intellectual property remains in Ferrari's possession.

The intellectual property contained in those physical documents would be a copyright breach and is actionable in the civil courts.

If he merely only copied the designs onto his own CD then there is probably only a copyright infringement. But as I understand it he had physical documents; belonging to Ferrari in his possession. It doesn't matter how many copies of the documents Ferrari had if the catula copy he had still belonged to Ferrari

There have been various comments about who owned the paper or book or if itwas on a CD or email.

Don't get bogged down in the media used to carry the information. In IP cases it is totally irrelevant as it is the value of the IP that is the primary issue. Once disclosed to competitors, or any other interested third party, the value is diminished dramatically. That applies to F1 designs, Coca-Cola recipes or the latest cat-walk fashion. It is the IP and the perceived advantage that the owner seeks to protect.

Whilst a bona-fide employee is entitled to access to some or all of that IP in the course of his work (in whatever location); he is not entitled to divulge it to third parties.

Doing so is technically theft. It gets messy when we try to determine the part played by the receiver. Was he a conspirator in the deed or not? Did he initiate the act or was he approached?

But we've been here before......

[HSTDriver]

Originally Posted by BigFoot

Agreed. He is an incredible talent. Hopefully he'll move to Ferrari at some stage

Hasn't he got a lifetime agreement (if not contract, then verbal agreement for sure) with Mclaren?

[BigFoot]

Well he may. However, I read that his father was trying to get him a better package, so there are always ways to get out of contracts

Kimi & LH at Ferrari: now we are talking

[jamieboy]

Originally Posted by 73GTVJim

Whilst a bona-fide employee is entitled to access to some or all of that IP in the course of his work (in whatever location); he is not entitled to divulge it to third parties.

Doing so is technically theft.

Fair enough, I don't doubt you know what you're talking about, so I technically stand corrected.

Out of interest, this is the page I was using as reference, and I was basing my argument on this paragraph:

"The [UK Law] commission pointed out that, since trade secrets do not constitute "property" for the purposes of the Theft Act 1968, they cannot be stolen under UK criminal law. So while anyone stealing trade secrets written on paper, or stored on a floppy disc, may be charged with the theft of the storage medium, they cannot be charged for stealing the secret itself. Clearly this does not reflect the true value of what was stolen"

[HSTDriver]

Originally Posted by BigFoot

Well he may. However, I read that his father was trying to get him a better package, so there are always ways to get out of contracts

Jenson Button's legal team are the experts in that situation.....

[Gary Slegg]

Originally Posted by BigFoot

… the FIA will disqualify McLaren from the 2008 F1 championship????

No, no, the book has to be stolen from the Science Fiction section for that to happen

[Gary Slegg]

Originally Posted by jamieboy

"The [UK Law] commission pointed out that, since trade secrets do not constitute "property" for the purposes of the Theft Act 1968, they cannot be stolen under UK criminal law. So while anyone stealing trade secrets written on paper, or stored on a floppy disc, may be charged with the theft of the storage medium, they cannot be charged for stealing the secret itself. Clearly this does not reflect the true value of what was stolen"

I think that 'trade secreats' are different than 'intellectual property'

[jamieboy]

Originally Posted by Gary Slegg

I think that 'trade secreats' are different than 'intellectual property'

Sort of true, a trade secret being one example of a form of intellectual property.

[73GTVJim]

Originally Posted by jamieboy

Fair enough, I don't doubt you know what you're talking about, so I technically stand corrected.

Out of interest, this is the page I was using as reference, and I was basing my argument on this paragraph:

"The [UK Law] commission pointed out that, since trade secrets do not constitute "property" for the purposes of the Theft Act 1968, they cannot be stolen under UK criminal law. So while anyone stealing trade secrets written on paper, or stored on a floppy disc, may be charged with the theft of the storage medium, they cannot be charged for stealing the secret itself. Clearly this does not reflect the true value of what was stolen"

In principle it is indeed theft IMO because the value is in the knowedge or designs rather than the intrinsically low value of the paper or disk. I know they were trying to beef up the statute and that is referred to in your quote but I'm not uptodate enough to know if it has been enacted.

Employment law generally covers the area regarding employees if the employer has safeguarded himself in the contract which would at least allow a civil injunction/remedy.

http://www.gillhams.com/articles/358.cfm

[BigFoot]

Guys?

Enough

[73GTVJim]

Originally Posted by BigFoot

Guys?

Enough

Sorry.

[Kevin Slegg]

Originally Posted by jamieboy

Fair enough, I don't doubt you know what you're talking about, so I technically stand corrected.

Out of interest, this is the page I was using as reference, and I was basing my argument on this paragraph:

"The [UK Law] commission pointed out that, since trade secrets do not constitute "property" for the purposes of the Theft Act 1968, they cannot be stolen under UK criminal law. So while anyone stealing trade secrets written on paper, or stored on a floppy disc, may be charged with the theft of the storage medium, they cannot be charged for stealing the secret itself. Clearly this does not reflect the true value of what was stolen"

That's my understanding. The company that has had the IP 'stolen' has to bring a Civil Action for breach of copyright, passing off etc

[AlfaLincs]

Jamieboys interpretation of 'theft' could go a long way to explaining the number of Scotsmen in prison (..what me..pouring petrol on the fire....never )

AlfaLincs

[jamieboy]

Originally Posted by AlfaLincs

Jamieboys interpretation of 'theft' could go a long way to explaining the number of Scotsmen in prison (..what me..pouring petrol on the fire....never )

That's a pretty stupid offensive comment.

[AlfaLincs]

Only if you take it seriously. Had I known your sensitivity I would clearly not have said it, so I apologise. No jokes about Scotsmen for me from now on thats for sure, mark my words. It was uncalled for, not least because I have never known a Scot take the P*ss out of the English..ever.

AlfaLincs

[Mel Bonkers]

Originally Posted by BigFoot

Well he may. However, I read that his father was trying to get him a better package, so there are always ways to get out of contracts

Kimi & LH at Ferrari: now we are talking

And you know what? Kimi wouldn't be scared to challenge with LH.....unless some other Spanish Spying (B)rat

[Gary Slegg]

Chaps, I can't help but think this is maybe loosing its good nature, perhaps we all need to take a breather

[BigFoot]

Thanks Gary.

Chaps, this has run its course. Don't make me lock the thread.

Happy to talk about the 2007 season but let's leave all the name calling out.

[Gilbertr14]

Hamilton could legally leave Mcaren via the cheating loophole in the contract. The same way Alonso is getting out.

[Gary Slegg]

Has it been confirmed Alonso is leaving?

[rafe005]

I heard somewhere (cant remember where) that Mercedes didnt want him driving their cars next year. Not sure if they can force him to leave but I suppose they could always relegate him to test driver.

[BigFoot]

See here rafe: http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/inter...st1334813.html

[rafe005]

See, I knew this forum was great for information. Cheers BF

[rafe005]

Hey BF, i would also like to say thanks for the return of the Sumo Guy, that Kitty wrestler just gave me the creeps for some reason