F1 season 2005

Originally Posted by Toronto Spider

The fans really showed a lack of class. Booing the teams that decided to run and the drivers who were out there was showing disrespect to the wrong people,

I think the fans were right to boo - and IMO the boo's were directed at Ferrari - it was the only team that would not agree to the chicane which all the other teams had agreed would solve the problem. Ferrari deprived the fans of a real race by their selfish actions

Well I suppose they had to do something to win this season but in doing so have lost all my respect at least.
Schumacher just showed how arrogant he is by nearly blasting Barachello off the track exiting the pits.
I also think team orders came into play towards the end as it was obvious Barachello would go for broke towards the end of the race.

All in all this race summed up all that is wrong with the sport - the tyre issue was only a sideline - it was the reaction to the problem that said it all.

Originally Posted by Alfaguy

I think the fans were right to boo - and IMO the boo's were directed at Ferrari - it was the only team that would not agree to the chicane which all the other teams had agreed would solve the problem. Ferrari deprived the fans of a real race by their selfish actions

Well, that's not how ITV presented it.

Ferrari didn't 'object' to the chicane idea; they just said from the outset that they were going to race. It was the FIA who declined the chicane idea. Ferrari were the only team who refused to sit out; all of the other teams, including Jordan and Minardi, at one point said that they wouldn't race. Ferrari didn't jump on that bandwagon. And why the hell shouldn't they race? They didn't have the safety excuse, so if they'd sat it out, it would have been a boycott.

Also, IMHO, the Schumacher/Barrichelo incident was not a display of Schumacher's arrogance, as you state. I thought it was a racing incident, and possibly the only bit of excitement throughout this whole F.I.A.sco...

Isn't it just as well we're all entitled to our own opinions....?

- Lips

Originally Posted by Alfaguy

I think the fans were right to boo - and IMO the boo's were directed at Ferrari - it was the only team that would not agree to the chicane which all the other teams had agreed would solve the problem. Ferrari deprived the fans of a real race by their selfish actions

Michelin made the wrong tyre and for that reason Michelin asked to change the track in a way, to make it possible for them to score points? How ridiculous is that?

Ferrari is not the cause of this drama, so don't blame Ferrari for not allowing a chicane.

Blame Michelin! Or even the FIA. FIA could have allowed a different set of tyres to save the race (with a time related penalty for each team who used the new set)

Why is there an almost universal 'let's blame Ferrari' culture? I've been reading a few motorsport-related forums etc, and have been astonished by the depth of bad feeling towards Ferrari and particularly Michael Schumacher. Why? Because their tyres were okay, and they didn't come to the big pity party? It's motor-racing, not a fraternity.

Ferrari didn't veto any of the suggestions that were being bandied about by the Michelin guys; they just didn't take part in the whole pantomime. As Ross Braun said, 'How could we veto something that was already vetoed by the FIA?'

This is the closing statement of a letter from Charlie Whiting to Michelin from this morning :

'Finally, it has been suggested that a chicane should be laid out in Turn 13. I am sure you will appreciate that this is out of the question. To change the course in order to help some of the teams with a performance problem caused by their failure to bring suitable equipment to the race would be a breach of the rules and grossly unfair to those teams which have come to Indianapolis with the correct tyres.'


I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Yes, it meant that the race was farcical today, but that blame lies squarely on the shoulders of Michelin.

- Lips

Originally Posted by UnpredictableLips

Why is there an almost universal 'let's blame Ferrari' culture? I've been reading a few motorsport-related forums etc, and have been astonished by the depth of bad feeling towards Ferrari and particularly Michael Schumacher.

I've said the same before, why are so many people anti-Ferrari/Scumacher?

Perhaps because they have been so successful...well, they're not this season so find some other scapegoat

As stated above, this was down the Michelin and the FIA......how did Ferrari get the blame?

Oh I know, MS drives for them....how silly of me

wrinx

I personally have no problem with Schumacher - its just that his win at all costs attitude - even if it means driving over your brother or team mate can get to me sometimes.
I actually keep this picture of Schumacher on my bedroom wall

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...bum/schumi.jpg

What a sad day for F1. I want to point out to a lot of people that they should check the facts before they post their opinions. I want to make one thing clear - Even the second batch of tires that Michelin brought in the "last second" they also had the same defect. So they the teams couldn't use them for obvious safety concerns. But, as Flavio Briatore said - in the interest of the sport and the fans , the teams were prepared to race even outside of contention for points just so the fans can enjoy racing and get their monies worth but with a new chicane on turn 13. Even though i think that that's a joke to put a new, untested entity on the road DON"T blame the teams cos they tried everything to find a solution and give the fans what they wanted. The FIA of course refused and even more there's no way that ferrari would allow this and although i hate them and every team that has Team orders, they are right to do so in this case-only the championship matters when it comes to the crunch and they have showed that they are (and Schumacher) prepared to do anything to win it (team orders, ,crashing into people etc.) which i completely can not digest and it makes me sick everytime it happens.

The blame is on Michelin 100% this is beyond embarrassing what a bunch of clowns and it was only made worst by FIA.

Personally I cannot see what the fuss is all about.
F1 is meant to be the pinnacle of Motor racing inovation.
Innovation means risk.
Normally the risk is kept within a team as individual teams essentially "design" the package that becomes the race car.Occasionally something goes wrong. If it is an engine problem due to design normally only one team is affected but sometimes more as engines can be shared between several teams.

Bridgestone and Michelin are locked into a "tyre war" created by F1 rules. When you have this situation you create, as mentioned above, risk. This time the innovation has resulted in the wrong carcass design being selected for the race. (Unfortunately the risk of tyre inovation is higher as tyres are common amonst many teams)
Firestone, the American subsiduary of the Japanese Bridgestone company ,knew from their involvement in the Recent Indy 500 that track conditions had changed significantly and that a different tyre was needed. Obviously Michelin did not get the required feed back, for what-ever reason, but this lead to a unsuitable tyre carcass choice.

You could blame Michelin, but if you did then what you are saying is that F1 should have no risk. This could be accomplished by 1 engine supplier, 1 chassis supplier and 1 tyre supplier....

The new motto for F1 could then become..innovation No thanks
Will this problem again occur. Well once bitten twice shy as they say but yes technically it could occur on a regular basis with the current rules.

In reality, the final Fiasco was created by the FIA not having any way of overcoming the situation so that a race could go ahead with all teams competing, for at the end of the day people are paying to be entertained.

Strangely the worrying thing for me was that I did not fall asleep watching this race

Originally Posted by Stori

Personally I cannot see what the fuss is all about.
F1 is meant to be the pinnacle of Motor racing inovation.
Innovation means risk.
Normally the risk is kept within a team as individual teams essentially "design" the package that becomes the race car.Occasionally something goes wrong. If it is an engine problem due to design normally only one team is affected but sometimes more as engines can be shared between several teams.

Bridgestone and Michelin are locked into a "tyre war" created by F1 rules. When you have this situation you create, as mentioned above, risk. This time the innovation has resulted in the wrong carcass design being selected for the race. (Unfortunately the risk of tyre inovation is higher as tyres are common amonst many teams)
Firestone, the American subsiduary of the Japanese Bridgestone company ,knew from their involvement in the Recent Indy 500 that track conditions had changed significantly and that a different tyre was needed. Obviously Michelin did not get the required feed back, for what-ever reason, but this lead to a unsuitable tyre carcass choice.

You could blame Michelin, but if you did then what you are saying is that F1 should have no risk. This could be accomplished by 1 engine supplier, 1 chassis supplier and 1 tyre supplier....

The new motto for F1 could then become..innovation No thanks
Will this problem again occur. Well once bitten twice shy as they say but yes technically it could occur on a regular basis with the current rules.

In reality, the final Fiasco was created by the FIA not having any way of overcoming the situation so that a race could go ahead with all teams competing, for at the end of the day people are paying to be entertained.

Strangely the worrying thing for me was that I did not fall asleep watching this race

Stori mate, we've had many Discussions on the stuped tire rule and the obvious incompetence of the FIA which is evident from this farce in the US. But having said that Michelin has massive portion of the blame to take and it is their inability to gather information about changes to the circuit that started this whole thing.

I suspect that there will be an even bigger fallout out of this yet to come. I also feel that the fans should receive Substantial refunds.

And even though i understand the anger nothing can justify the actions of the few idiots that threw bottles on the track.

In all this emotion and upheaval, i also want to shed some light on the bigger picture that is F1 and the power struggle between FIA and the future break away from F1 of car manufacturers who want to create another championship because they don't agree with the proposed changes(thats the official line but i think they just want a bigger slice of the profits and more control) by the FIA in 2008. Most of the car manufacturers were not "represented" in this race. HHMM strange indeed and maybe not a coincidence. And put the 2008 proposed regulation of just ONE tire supplier for all teams into the equation and suddenly everything that is happening makes sense. So now the FIA has one strong reason to put this regulation in power this season or more likely next year and kick Michelin out of F1. WOW sorry for the rant but i'm just fuming. So much drama i've developed a headache

Yes we have had many discussions

and yes there is a "power struggle"

and yes it is probably over money,

and no the fans do not, nor should they expect a refund ,as they got what they could expect with current Formula 1 rules (now that will cause a small amount of mildly warm discusion )

and the Failure to cope with the problem with the tyres is caused by the FIA not Michelin as has been suggested.

Michelin certainly made a mistake but there is no section in the rules that allows for a mistake. Engine manufactures, chassis manufactures can make a mistake and correct it before race day, itself , albeit with a position penalty. Tyre companies have to be perfect.
FIA--- F#ckwits in Action

Originally Posted by Stori

and no the fans do not, nor should they expect a refund ,as they got what they could expect with current Formula 1 rules (now that will cause a small amount of mildly warm discusion )

Technically there was a race so I think you're right....but we're dealing with the US here, wonder how long it will be before someone has the FIA in court for a refund and damages due to the stress

wrinx

Originally Posted by Stori

Yes we have had many discussions

and yes there is a "power struggle"

and yes it is probably over money,

and no the fans do not, nor should they expect a refund ,as they got what they could expect with current Formula 1 rules (now that will cause a small amount of mildly warm discusion )

and the Failure to cope with the problem with the tyres is caused by the FIA not Michelin as has been suggested.

Michelin certainly made a mistake but there is no section in the rules that allows for a mistake. Engine manufactures, chassis manufactures can make a mistake and correct it before race day, itself , albeit with a position penalty. Tyre companies have to be perfect.
FIA--- F#ckwits in Action

NO, NO ... As a tire company you HAVE to have back up tires something that maybe will lack some performance but that is solid and tested. Not only that Michelin didn't have back up tires at hand but the ones that were flown in had the same problem something about the mesh base of the tires. If they had these then no problem racing continues but with penalties of course. Even the F#ckwits in Action FIA which is a correct discription would have allowed new tires introduced due to safety issues but with some penalties.

And the fans should have some amount of refund PERIOD.

Or maybe they should have given the drivers 50cc Vespas and make it equal fun for everyone

just have one thing to say: "Gooooo Monteiro"

Most worrying is the failure of everyone involved to see the bigger picture, the one that everyone else saw:

A bloody farce.

As one fan correctly said "NASCAR and IRL wouldn't treat their paying customers like that". How right he was. Promote this man to president!

I see no future for F1 in America anymore,
Max Mosley & uncle Grandad Bernie should step down & let the people rule this farcical & fascist sport.