Hamilton Appeal Denied...

[bazza]

Originally Posted by Squadrone Rosso

Excellent

Really? Would you really celebrate your lad being given the title in the courtroom? And especially when they haven't even gone down the route of ratifying the decision? They've just said 'we can't be bothered to decide, so we'll go with the flow'?

[Damien_C]

Originally Posted by chrisd_b

I dunno - is it cos he's black

Ahh come on now. It wouldn't matter if he was orange. He drove like a fool at the Italian GP. Pulling across dangerously. Blocking people by forcing them onto wet grass at 140mph.

I personally dispise him as does the whole of the Italian GP. Not just Italians mind you, Spainish, German, French and Polish. All had a dis like for him. It is his driving style, I don't like it at all.

Same why I will never like Damon Hill, Ralf Schmacher, Alonso I just don't like them as people or drivers.

[WoodenFlugel]

I'll watch it on Sunday, safe in knowledge that if the "right" winner doesn't cross the line first the FIA will have no qualms about "sorting" so their man actually wins.

More to the point - what odds on a sterile overtake-free procession in light of this. And to think that F1 currently has an "overtaking committee" looking at ways of making the racing more exciting. Those few corners in Spa were amongst the best bits of F1 I've seen in a very long time - I would gladly do some very undesirable things to see a season of that sort of action. Doesn't matter if the car is red, silver, blue or pink with yellow spots, if the drivers aren't confident that the decisions they make in a split second at 100mph+, won't then be poured over for two days in a court complete with lawyers, sorry "legal representatives", then they won't make those decisions in the first place. Sooner just pootle along in a neat procession and go for the points.

So, Bernie, Max et al - I'll watch the rest of the season to see how it pans out, but I don't think I'll be returning next year.

[Damien_C]

I'm sorry but this has be done for years. Back in the 90's it happened to Eddie Irvine.

[neilied]

just a farce, as for the forcing people onto the grass at 140+ and basically being dangerous, its f1, its motorsport its supposed to have an element of danger. christ i remember when i used to play ice hockey, the idea is to flout the rules as marginally as possible to your advantage, we used to train so we knew where to hit some one where the least amount of padding is to try to take them out of the game by the way its going in with the butt of the stick up under the armpit, normally breaks a few ribs been on the giving and recieving of that a few times. any how back to the f1, my thoughts were no matter the driver the car relinquished the lead and then went at it so rule box was ticked and the gods that be spoiled a fine race of skill.

[Damien_C]

Yes it is meant to be dangerous. But not intentionally dangerous which is what happened there.

And I kinda gave up reading the rest of your post.

[jabberwocky]

surely hamiltons 'dangerous driving' would make everyone love him, never did that german bloke any harm did it? he made senna look like an amateur in the forcing people off the track and getting away with it stakes.

as for the current state of F1 its really putting me off, i went to my first gp this year at silverstone and loved every minute of it. bit soured for me now all this is happening.

those closing laps that led to this debacle were some of the best and most exciting in F1 in years but for the FIA to rob all fans(im no hamilton fan, arrogant little ******) of a result after the event is a joke.

as is the decision today, they have followed the path of least resistance and made a non decision.

i for one have lost interest in F1, not because 'our lewis' is being wronged but because of the way the FIA appears determined to not allow the F1 championship to be decided on the track, i just have lost interest, simple as that, F1 is supposed to be a sport not politics.

[Squadrone Rosso]

He's a good driver and a great racer, even BF gives him that but he needs to mature and buy some new underpants as is balls are to big for the ones he wears now

The appeal was destined to fail as an appeal is not allowed so why did McMerc go through with it

[GTA_Dave]

I gave up on F1 years ago just because of this sort of thing.Give me BTCC,WTCC or historics any day,where people go out to win,and the organisers are astute enough to recognise that this makes for great and exciting racing.

[Alfaspeed]

You cant have rules that are in a 'grey' area in any sport. These rules need to be black and white and clear cut. This is especially true when the sport in question is supposed to be the top gun of racing with the crème de la crème at the wheels. Being able to change a decision on a whim because the rules are not clear enough to prevent it happening does nobody any favours at all. F1 needs to get it's act together before the top names of the sport walk away.

[Green_Rizla]

I did hear that Hamilton's lawyer blew it by using the "Liar Liar your pants are on fire" defence ...........

Cheers To All
Peter

[Jez in Devon]

Just reading on F1fanatic.co.uk that an identical appeal was allowed last year involving Antonio Luizzi & that the FIA have incensed the chief steward that made that decision by saying he has since changed his mind - he hasn't. He is no longer a steward for the FIA. With the FIA misrepresenting their former stewards the conspiracy theories will go on & on
Picking up on an earlier reply on this thread, I also read on the BBC about Lewis arguing his case in the appeal against Ferrari's lawyer - what in hell was he doing there?

[HSTDriver]

Originally Posted by Alfaspeed

You cant have rules that are in a 'grey' area in any sport. These rules need to be black and white and clear cut. This is especially true when the sport in question is supposed to be the top gun of racing with the crème de la crème at the wheels. Being able to change a decision on a whim because the rules are not clear enough to prevent it happening does nobody any favours at all. F1 needs to get it's act together before the top names of the sport walk away.

Agreed, but in my opinion it was pretty black and white prior to Spa. If you gain an advantage or a place by cutting a chicane, then you give that place back.

I think now we have a bigger grey area than ever before.

[VeloceMitch]

Originally Posted by Damien_C

Yes it is meant to be dangerous. But not intentionally dangerous which is what happened there.

And I kinda gave up reading the rest of your post.

There was nothing intentionally dangerous about that at all, he simply didn't see him whilst hunckered down in his carbon fibre box with virtually no rear visibility.
You also seem to have lost site of the fact that Kimi actualy moved across on Lewis, not unfairly I agree but he did do so and that's why Lewis cut the chicane. They must NEVER be allowed to stop the drivers racing each other FFS it's supposed be a race not a procession.

So Mclarren can't appeal then, what really puzzles me is how it's taken everbody so long and so much money to decide that you can't decide anything, also how come when Torro Rosso appealed against a drive through for overtaking under double yellows they WERE allowed to appeal?. Nothing to do with the Ferrari Engine I suppose.

I've been a life long F1 enthusiast, going back to as long as I can remember, late sixties probably, I'm also even though I say it myself a 'fair' person, but I'm really beginning to doubt the impartiality of the FIA these days, it's getting beyond a joke it really is

Hamilton is one of the most exciting drivers that's arrived in F1 for some time, since Schumi probably, he's quick, willing to take risks, has a very spectacular style (even if it doesn't help some times!) and as far as I have seen carries himself fairly well too. I'm at a bit of a loss to see why he's getting the level of critism he is from various places, I'm sure he wasn't flavour of the month in Italy, but then again the Tifosi have never been exactly impartial have they!. You can't knock the Italian passion, but you do have to see past it sometimes to see the bigger picture.

[Nev]

Originally Posted by Damien_C

ANot just Italians mind you, Spainish, German, French and Polish. All had a dis like for him. It is his driving style, I don't like it at all.

Well, okay, apart from the Spanish.
Some of whom actually did appear to
dislike him 'cause he's black.

[Damien_C]

Originally Posted by Nev

Well, okay, apart from the Spanish.
Some of whom actually did appear to
dislike him 'cause he's black.

Maybe I'm naive. But I didn't pick up on that at all. And personally to me, I wouldn't care if he was orange.

He is a good driver I have to admit. But personally Vettel and Bourdais are more of talent anyday. As they are in a tiny team and still qualied good and Vettel just ran away in the race.

Originally Posted by jabberwocky

surely hamiltons 'dangerous driving' would make everyone love him, never did that german bloke any harm did it? he made senna look like an amateur in the forcing people off the track and getting away with it stakes.

as for the current state of F1 its really putting me off, i went to my first gp this year at silverstone and loved every minute of it. bit soured for me now all this is happening.

those closing laps that led to this debacle were some of the best and most exciting in F1 in years but for the FIA to rob all fans(im no hamilton fan, arrogant little ******) of a result after the event is a joke.

as is the decision today, they have followed the path of least resistance and made a non decision.

i for one have lost interest in F1, not because 'our lewis' is being wronged but because of the way the FIA appears determined to not allow the F1 championship to be decided on the track, i just have lost interest, simple as that, F1 is supposed to be a sport not politics.

I agree, some of the things Schmacher did where bad and wrong. And could be linked to the same as hamilton. I don't for one thing though agree with that he didn't know he was there on his outside the man just passed out the Toyota.

And he did some serious blocking.

But the thing is F1 is politics always was and always will be. They have done this for years. And really do you not think 1 point in the difference will make the coming race even more exciting?? Than a 7 point lead?

[BigFoot]

Guys, the issue here (if there is one) is not whether the appeal should have been heard or not, but whether the penalty was a fair one or not (being discussed in another thread).

Given this is a drive-through penalty, technically, the rules state it cannot be appealed. End of story.

Remember that drive-through's can be changed into time penalties if they are given in the last 3 (I think 3) laps of the race as to avoid a repeat of Schumacher's win while serving a drive-through penalty.

[nomad]

Originally Posted by BigFoot

Guys, the issue here (if there is one) is not whether the appeal should have been heard or not, but whether the penalty was a fair one or not (being discussed in another thread).
Given this is a drive-through penalty, technically, the rules state it cannot be appealed. End of story.
Remember that drive-through's can be changed into time penalties if they are given in the last 3 (I think 3) laps of the race as to avoid a repeat of Schumacher's win while serving a drive-through penalty.

The issue being discussed here is the appeal and it's outcome/non decision and all the debates that brings up i.e the issue of why Ferrari's lawyers were there.... and why other teams have been allowed to appeal drive throughs in the past not whether it should have been heard or not

I'm not particularly keen on Lewis's personality any more due to some of the ridiculous comments he's been making lately and I'm not a Ferrari fan but the issue here is also the FIA's credibility and how it is now in the er due to pathetic stuff like this

Bernie wants F1 to be the greatest show on Earth yet he and Max allow this type of to go on and ruin it's appearance to the wider - and potentially future audience !!

[BigFoot]

Ferrari lawyers were there because ... the penalty involved an incident with a Ferrari car

Remember, both Kimi and Hamilton were questioned by the stewards after the race, hence both of their legal representatives' presence at the hearing.

[nomad]

Of course they were dear

[Chill]

Looks like Ferrari's lawyers will busy again after Singapore

Video: McLaren fit headlights for the Singapore Grand Prix | Gridcrasher - Motor Sports

[BigFoot]

Someone beat you to it

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/inter...ight-race.html (McLaren's new front wing for Singapore's night race)

[nomad]

What is it you've been saying lately about keeping things on topic

[BigFoot]

Chill's fault

[nomad]

So you'll be removing these posts them eh