Where art thou, Romeo?

[Picard]

[EDIT - THIS IS NOT MY ARTICLE - I DIDN'T WRITE IT BUT THOUGHT I'D JUST POST IT AS ITS ALFA RELATED AND THIS IS A ALFA FORUM. I LOVE MY ALFA! Well, apart from the niggles...]

In our brand-obsessed world you would think that a car badge with the proud history of Alfa Romeo would be pretty much a guaranteed winner.

We're talking about an automotive moniker with more history than BMW and Audi combined, a company that was winning Grands Prix in the 1930s and which went on to create some of the most exciting sportscars of the post-war period.

When it comes to design, Alfa has rarely put a corporate foot wrong. Even when the product quality achieved its absolute nadir in the 'seventies and 'eighties, it was still building some of the most stylish grotboxes out there. The current model line-up is packed with handsome, different, interesting-looking cars.

Which is why I'm left scratching my head about why the company is in such dire straits in the UK right now, with sales having fallen dramatically during the last five years. Granted, the moribund 147 hatchback can't be expected to do anything for volumes - I bet most people think it died years ago. But the current 159 saloon and estate are both handsome, well-constructed cars, the GT coupe is okay-ish if that's your kind of thing and the Brera/ Spider is one of the best looking sportscars out there.

So what's the big problem? It won't surprise you to learn that I've got some of my own ideas on that one - but let's start with a brief historical detour.

Back when I was a kid in the 1960s, Alfa was treated with the sort of reverence that now gets lavished on the likes of Ferrari. The company's products seemed almost impossibly exotic. I can remember poring over magazine road-tests and reading about details like four wheel disc brakes, five speed gearboxes and - most amazingly of all - a 1.3 litre twin-cam engine that was capable of producing 100 bhp. (At the time the agricultural British 'A' series motor managed to squeeze 67 bhp from 1275cc of swept capacity.) Alfas were stylish, beautifully engineered and expensive - they didn't sell in big numbers in the UK, but the people who bought them were nearly all mad-keen enthusiasts.


Then the 1970s happened and the rot set in. Literally, as it turned out. Alfa diversified into producing some more mainstream models, most prominent of which was the Alfasud hatchback: a nice looking thing that used an advanced front-wheel drive chassis to impressively sharp driving dynamics. It should have been a winner, yet, in the UK it pretty much sank the company's reputation once and for all.

The smart new factory at Pomigliano d'Arco that was turning out the Sud had industrial relations bad enough to make Longbridge or Cowley in the UK look like the last twenty minutes of It's A Wonderful Life. For the Trotskyite lineworkers, screwing Suds together took a back seat to fermenting plans for international revolution (over a three-course pasta lunch, naturally). Indeed, the plant's famously terrible build quality suggested the car itself might have been a pre-emptive strike on the fabric of the capitalist system.

But the workers couldn't be blamed for the 'Sud's biggest failing: the fact it was constructed from low-grade steel bought cheaply from (appropriately enough) the Soviet Union. It only took a few months of the British winter to reveal the 'Sud suffered from a terrifying propensity for corrosion. Within as little as three or four years a badly blighted 'Sud would be fit for nothing more than the scrapheap, and the main reason you see hardly any of them around (against the number of similar vintage mk1 VW Golfs that have survived) is that most of them have long since dissolved.

Relevance of all this to Alfa's current predicament? The simple fact that, in the minds of the British car-buying public, Alfa has never been able to get away from the reputation earned for it by its shonky 'seventies and 'eighties products, of which the 'Sud's tendency to extreme rot was the worst example.

It's strange when you consider how quickly Skoda has been able to turn around its reputation - from joke brand to major player in under ten years. But go into any pub in the country, find the resident 'car expert' (he'll be the guy propped against the bar with the reddest nose) and you'll get all the same Alfa cliches pouring out: "yeah, great to look at but they just fall to pieces, don't they? The Italians like their cars like they like their women - expensive and high-maintenance." He'll then go onto tell you about how his mate's mate suffered at the hands of an Alfa dealer who spat in his face before suggesting, meaningfully, that his glass is empty and you might like to top it up a bit, squire.


Granted, elements of Alfa's UK dealer network certainly don't help the cause any, and it would be fair to say that Alfa doesn't sit very high in the list of automotive franchises that dealers aspire to get hold of. But many of them are actually pretty decent, certainly compared to the utter disdain meted out to some punters who even dare to enter a premium German chrome-and-glass 'experience centre' - and there are few parts of the country without a really good Alfa specialist.

Alfa's biggest problem, I reckon, is the over-optimistic pricing that's been stuck to the corporate line-up for years. Put simply, Alfa isn't a premium brand. You're not going to persuade the sort of guy who was about to sign up for a BMW 318i that he actually wants an Alfa 159 instead, even if it does come with a more powerful engine and a few extra toys.

But what about the punter who is also looking at a VW Passat or Ford Mondeo? He'd love a bit of Italian glamour - and if the leasing fees are kept low enough and the dealer network is tweaked a bit then his fleet manager isn't going to mind sticking him into a 159 instead. Similarly the Alfa Brera makes absolutely no sense for as long as it costs £2000 more than the equivalent Audi TT. But for £2000 less than its German rival, I reckon that there would be something close to queues forming outside dealerships.

From a product point of view, Alfa hasn't been stronger since those heady days of the 1960s - and behind that simple truth lies the potential renaissance of one of the strongest brands there is.

http://fifthgear.five.tv/jsp/5gmain....=844&pageid=-1

[Mitch166]

[QUOTE=Picard;1125498]dGranted, the moribund 147 hatchback can't be expected to do anything for volumes - I bet most people think it died years ago. /QUOTE]

Thats a bit harsh!

You wont make yourself popular around here saying things like that!

[Nev]

Yet more UK-centric views on AR.

Just ain't like that over here.

[Oliver]

Must say I agree with Picard to an extent.

I am new to the Alfa car (buying a 159 V6) but always wanted one but not really sure why (is V6 noise and looks enough?) as going back many years they had a reputation for being rust buckets. That has changed over the last few years but it takes more than that to get the car back to being a premium brand. Problems with the car (electrics, material fit etc) are always being highlighted as being inferior to the competition which is now soon keen and brand advertising plays such an important part which Alfa don't do enough of or if they do they don't advertise the car benefits but just hope buyers want the badge alone.

I have my fingers crossed that my 159 works well and all reports would suggest that but I have reduced my HP deal from 3 to 2 years just in case and take the depreciaiation risk out and that is all down to my underlying fear (shared with the non-Alfa public) that it is not a premium brand, which it well may be now but the general car public does not know.

Oliver

[norbert]

Picard, what is your point exactly? You have copy and pasted a badly-writen article and made no commment on it yourself?

FFS, Who uses the words Moribund and Nadir? And of course then wheels out the old Trotskyite accusations and cliches about Italian lunches.

[Nev]

Is "The Insider" trying to be a 5th Gear, non-driving version
of The Stig ?

[vinkeirle]

Originally Posted by Nev

Yet more UK-centric views on AR.

Just ain't like that over here.

What sort of image and reputation do AR have in Europe?

Vin

[Pud237]

And the Brera/Spider is about as much of a sportscar as a sumo wrestler is an athlete.

[Commanderfish]

Originally Posted by Picard

Similarly the Alfa Brera makes absolutely no sense for as long as it costs £2000 more than the equivalent Audi TT.

Erm no - the Brera has so much more standard equipment than the TT, that when you price up for the equivalent spec, the Brera is far cheaper.

But my main point - WE DON'T WANT ALFA TO SELL LOTS OF CARS. I want to be the only person in my neck of the woods with a Brera.

So lets count ourselves lucky, shall we?!

[Nev]

Originally Posted by vinkeirle

What sort of image and reputation do AR have in Europe?

Although they still suffer the reliability "jokes"
they are a main stream car with a large dealer
network.

No different from buying any other make.
(Apart from they're way cooler. Of course.)

There are as many Alfas on the roads as there
are Fords etc. And you see way more than a
lot of Jap makes.

[zulu ferret]

My wife thinks her 147 is one of the prettiest Hatchbacks ever made. She is upset, now!

[ode]

I don't get it. Why would any Alfa fan (Picard must be one, why else would he/she be here?) post that pile of cack and not make the slightest comment?

But really, does 'The Insider' actually know anything about the car market or is he just blindly repeating the same old toss that's been said about Alfas by whiskey-faced old miseries since year dot?

The saddest thing: he's probably getting paid to write **** like that.
On the upside: it's on the Fifth Gear website, so hardly anyone will read it

[NZBrera]

I think Picard makes a good point. Here in NZ Alfas seem to be priced noticeably lower than "equivalent" BMWs or Audis - say in broad terms a 159 2.2 sportswagon would be $60,000 and a BMW 320 touring $71,000 or $81,000 with higher specifications (many of which would come as standard on the 159). I don't think the Alfa brand is regarded as much as a natural choice to go for in a saloon/estate car, perhaps because of the historical rust problems but perhaps also because it has been seen as a sports car brand which has comparatively recently diversified into the mainstream (like MG?). The "oo, Alfas are a bit special" thing might put off people wanting a sensible car. I agree that all of these things are inaccurate or just plain wrong, but they seem to me to be the public perception.

[tremolo]

The article is spot on.

Alfa is plagued by their reputation. People don't seem to want to forget it, so pricing their cars at the same level as top-tier Euro (Merc, BMW, Audi) is not going to help them forget.

[Mitch166]

Originally Posted by tremolo

The article is spot on.

Alfa is plagued by their reputation. People don't seem to want to forget it, so pricing their cars at the same level as top-tier Euro (Merc, BMW, Audi) is not going to help them forget.

My worry is Alfa will become as sterile as the German snooze wagons.

It's a fine line, reliability, cost and profit against style brio and feedback

I don't want my Alfa to be like an Audi or a BMW - honest! I know my Alfa will cost me more to run, will present me will issues to solve but it's just so much more involving. And when shes on fine fettle, shes a joy to drive.

This is not what Mr BMW wants. He wants a car that will never let him down and gets him from A to B without fuss, without.........anything. It just does it.

I want more from my car.

[Commanderfish]

Yep let's hope alfas don't become as boring as German fare. But I challenge the preconception that Alfas cost more to run. The servicing costs for my mum's BMW 318i is absolutely SHOCKING compared to my GTV, or the even cheaper 159/Brera.

Sure, some new Alfas may have minor problems, particularly early in the production run. But my mum's brand new 318i had to go back to the dealer's three times in the first year with problems that needed fixing! How is that more reliable, or better quality than a cheaper, faster and let's face it, downright sexier, Alfa?

[BigFoot]

Originally Posted by Commanderfish

Yep let's hope alfas don't become as boring as German fare.

That's something that could be a serious risk in a few years' time TBH.

[alfaredthegreat]

Originally Posted by Picard

Back when I was a kid in the 1960s, Alfa was treated with the sort of reverence that now gets lavished on the likes of Ferrari.
<snip>
Alfas were stylish, beautifully engineered and expensive - they didn't sell in big numbers in the UK, but the people who bought them were nearly all mad-keen enthusiasts.

whereas today....?

Still not sure about the engineering though, to be honest.

Originally Posted by Picard

For the Trotskyite lineworkers, screwing Suds together took a back seat to fermenting plans for international revolution (over a three-course pasta lunch, naturally). Indeed, the plant's famously terrible build quality suggested the car itself might have been a pre-emptive strike on the fabric of the capitalist system.

But the workers couldn't be blamed for the 'Sud's biggest failing: the fact it was constructed from low-grade steel bought cheaply from (appropriately enough) the Soviet Union.

These two issues are probably not a coincidence. Of course the smart observer, not happy to re-cycle tired old cliches, will notice that the poor industrial relations were another consequence of the tight-fisted attitude of the management.

Originally Posted by Picard

Alfa's biggest problem, I reckon, is the over-optimistic pricing that's been stuck to the corporate line-up for years. Put simply, Alfa isn't a premium brand.

Originally Posted by Picard

The simple fact that, in the minds of the British car-buying public, Alfa has never been able to get away from the reputation earned for it by its shonky 'seventies and 'eighties products, of which the 'Sud's tendency to extreme rot was the worst example.

It's strange when you consider how quickly Skoda has been able to turn around its reputation - from joke brand to major player in under ten years.

Partly by undercutting the competition maybe, but more importantly, by delivering reliable cars!!!! Skoda cars have consistently appeared at/near the top of the JD Power survey.

[gezkc]

I think the article's pretty much spot on to be honest - Alfa do have image issues to address in this country, but they are addressing them (which is why the Brera and 159 have ended up weighing as much as they do - they're built like tanks!)

Residual values of Alfas are also improving, so that's another sign that things are on the up. It'll mean that fleet managers will be more willing to add them to their company car lists in years to come, and means Alfa should start selling a lot more cars. None of us want Alfas to be as common as Mondeos or BMW 3 Series, obviously, but the more profit Alfa can make, the better it's got to be for the development of more and more interesting future models.

A lot of undeserved Alfa bashing takes place, as we all know, but I think this article paints a fairly accurate picture of how things have been over the past few decades (in the UK at least). Looking at the way Alfa are moving now, I think there's very good cause to be optimistic for Alfa's future.

[Commanderfish]

What Gezkc said!

[Coops79]

I didn't think it was that bad either. Obviously some of it was headline grabbing, but IMO, Alfa are not a premium brand in the same way that the German brands are. Just look at the product line up compared to BMW etc.

Alfa are really in the same group as Volvo and Saab etc.

Let the vitriol begin

[Passa]

Originally Posted by tremolo

The article is spot on.

Alfa is plagued by their reputation. People don't seem to want to forget it, so pricing their cars at the same level as top-tier Euro (Merc, BMW, Audi) is not going to help them forget.

ummm no my uncle's new 320i (option Sunroof and that's it) cost 15,000 more than my new 159 and it's rubbish in comparison.

Brera JTS are now $63,000 how much is the SLK200 85?90?

[Alfahorn]

Originally Posted by Coops79

I didn't think it was that bad either. Obviously some of it was headline grabbing, but IMO, Alfa are not a premium brand in the same way that the German brands are. Just look at the product line up compared to BMW etc.

Alfa are really in the same group as Volvo and Saab etc.

Let the vitriol begin

I agree.

I'm very happy for Alfa not be considered in the same bracket as BMW, Audi and Mercedes.

To buy any of these brands I think you are buying a car to impress your clients or neighbours, it doesn't matter how it drives as long as it has the right badge.

Let these people get on with while the informed continue to enjoy driving.