Alfa Depreciation

I've just being having a browse at 'other' cars, all high powered petrol ones and in these difficult financial times how come cars that cost a packet to run in fuel, insurance and tax like the Nissan 350Z's, Focus ST's, Golf GTI's, Volvo C30 T5's etc have held their prices pretty well yet Alfas and even diesel ones (which supposedly everyone wants these days!!) are so ****ing cheap? It is a ridiculous scenario. Enough to put me off buying another one in fact as not only do I have to sell them so cheaply they take about a 1000 years to sell

Just how long can people live off the 20 year outdated line 'because they always break down and rust'

[alfared159]

3 years ago before I bought my 159 I did the arithmetic, using the % depreciation figures from What Car? Then looking at the cost of a new Alfa Romeo 159 compared to a BMW 3 series of a similar spec. No surprise to learn that the 3 year % depreciation of the Alfa Romeo was much greater than the BMW. However, the actual CASH lost was far greater with the BMW than the Alfa Romeo, simply because the BMW was so ridiculously expensive to start with, when speced to the same standard as the Alfa Romeo.

So yes the other used cars may have a higher price tag, but the cash lost from their new price is likely to be far greater.

True that they are going to be more expensive to begin with but I am just surprised at how much people are still asking for their high powered petrol cars in this current climate whereas GTA's etc are going for peanuts. Mk V Golf R32's for example are still pretty expensive

How much for example was a 2005 Nissan 350Z new in comparison to a GT 3.2 yet the 350Z's are still fetching £2000 or so more for a similar mileage one (and they haven't even got back seats lol!!). I can't imagine Nissan have got a better name than Alfa

[Muz]

Average Joe really wants a BMW or Audi because it's the car to be seen in, and he'll pay a premium for it. Alfas are not the car to be seen in as everyone makes jokes about them. It's all about how you want other people to perceive you. That is probably a bit simplistic but most high flyers will not be choosing an Alfa..sadly.

We get them cheap so can't really moan that we have to sell cheap.

Originally Posted by Muz

We get them cheap

I haven't as yet

....and especially not from a dealer!!

[156Chris]

2 words ... "Dealer Network" ... or more precisely the lack of it ... firstly dealers can (artifically) keep the prices of cars high, if you go into a main dealer to look for a 2-3 year old car there isn't a huge difference to brand new (apart from the fact that you can drive it away that day), this means that if you are privately selling a car that is 2-3 years old you can just pin the price to the dealers minus 10%.

Because Alfa do not really have a network to speak of, they don't have the power to do this.


Secondaly, customer service, because there are only a few Alfa dealers around (compared to BMW that see to have one in every single town in the country) you're going to have to travel is significant distance to get it serviced/fixed ... and then when you do they usually cluck it up mainly because Alfa Romeo Italy do not give the dealers in the UK (or it seems elsewhere) any support, compare this to BMW and they have a huge second line support in Germany ensuring that the BMW brand is maintained.


These will put off people from buying an Alfa at a premium price, therefore they will only sell if they are cheaper.

[diamond72]

My dealer openly admitted that, for example with the Giulietta QV, the dealer network as a whole keep stock levels low, purely in order to keep prices up. If you're a crafty bugger like me, you spot the one that they ordered a few months earlier that is still sat in the showroom and pick it up for not much more than secondhand money.

I happen to know that there is an Etna black QV, full leather, electric seats, bi xenons and every conceivable extra due to land in the next ten days. If that is hanging around in the dealer's come July, someone will end up with a £30k car for around £24k!

[lovelyred159]

Originally Posted by diamond72

My dealer openly admitted that, for example with the Giulietta QV, the dealer network as a whole keep stock levels low, purely in order to keep prices up. If you're a crafty bugger like me, you spot the one that they ordered a few months earlier that is still sat in the showroom and pick it up for not much more than secondhand money.

I happen to know that there is an Etna black QV, full leather, electric seats, bi xenons and every conceivable extra due to land in the next ten days. If that is hanging around in the dealer's come July, someone will end up with a £30k car for around £24k!

It comes complete with a 4 months depreciation package worth £6k.....

[ratatouille]

I just bought a Brera with a few months original dealer warranty left for almost half the original cost. It is a bit scary how much car you can get for the money buying second hand. Must admit though it wasn't depreciation that put me off buying a new Alfa, but the severely limited range at the moment.

[156Chris]

this is the sort of reason why ... http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...ml#post4711671 (Alfa 159 TI Q4 major engine failure)

Originally Posted by 156Chris

this is the sort of reason why ... http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...ml#post4711671 (Alfa 159 TI Q4 major engine failure)

Nightmare

[156Chris]

Originally Posted by Graham P

Nightmare

The nightmare isn't that the car broke (all cars can break) it's the way the Alfa Dealer is trying to completely rip off the client ... if this was BMW then BMW head office would probably remove them ... Alfa Italy on the other hand do not care

[Ralf S.]

They do care ...and they have weeded out a whole load of the weaker dealerships, which is why there's a bit of a gap in the dealer network.

Dealers will only take on a brand if there is a prospect of making money out of it though.. and having just 2 models to sell isn't going to tempt anyone that doesn't already have a Fiat dealership already.

When more models start to arrive and a bit of sales momentum picks up.. then more dealers will take on the franchise.


As for the "poor depreciation".. Alfas are still a rusty, unreliable and expensive to fix as far as the plebian hordes are concerned. They might take a punt when times are good but when things are a bit tight, they'll run back to the familiar, thinking that it'll be less rusty, less unreliable and less expensive.

On the other hand, people with these mundane-mobiles also often think they are more valuable than they actually are. They'll think a VW doesn't depreciate so they'll try to flog their £25k when new three years ago Polo for £22...

I think Alfisti are just a bit more realistic and sensible, if I do say so myself..


Ralf S.

[Buck Bundy]

Originally Posted by Muz

Average Joe really wants a BMW or Audi because it's the car to be seen in, and he'll pay a premium for it. Alfas are not the car to be seen in as everyone makes jokes about them. It's all about how you want other people to perceive you. That is probably a bit simplistic but most high flyers will not be choosing an Alfa..sadly.

We get them cheap so can't really moan that we have to sell cheap.

Sadly? Bloody good thing I say. Let average Joe stick to his Audi/BMW.

[davidjwbailey]

depreciation on Giulietta is best in class. see threads for details.

[156Chris]

Originally Posted by davidjwbailey

depreciation on Giulietta is best in class. see threads for details.

For the moment, just wait until the car becomes 3 years old (warranty run out) that is when the prices will start free falling (just as with the 159/Brera etc) ... this will have the effect of bringing down the price of the newer cars too (people will think why would I buy this 3 year old car when I get get a 4 year old for about half the price ... this will cause the 3 year old prices to drop ... then the 2 year old etc)

The only way that Alfa could stop this is to regularly facelift the car (like BMW do for the mini), this would keep the prices of the newer cars up (because there is a difference between the newer and older models), which would also have the effect of keeping the old car prices up, trouble is that Alfa do not have the resources to do this.


I don't wish to keep being negative, but this is just how alfa is.

[symon]

We say that Alfa's depreciate though but when I was looking at 147's the other week, there was very little difference in price between those and VW Golfs of the same age. In fact many 147's were more expensive.

A top spec 147 2.0 TS with 5 doors and a similar age and mileage would have most likely cost me more than my Golf.

[cue2]

Originally Posted by 156Chris

For the moment, just wait until the car becomes 3 years old (warranty run out) that is when the prices will start free falling (just as with the 159/Brera etc) ... this will have the effect of bringing down the price of the newer cars too (people will think why would I buy this 3 year old car when I get get a 4 year old for about half the price ... this will cause the 3 year old prices to drop ... then the 2 year old etc)

The only way that Alfa could stop this is to regularly facelift the car (like BMW do for the mini), this would keep the prices of the newer cars up (because there is a difference between the newer and older models), which would also have the effect of keeping the old car prices up, trouble is that Alfa do not have the resources to do this.


I don't wish to keep being negative, but this is just how alfa is.

did you buy your Alfa new?
If not, lucky somebody else did.

Originally Posted by symon

A top spec 147 2.0 TS with 5 doors and a similar age and mileage would have most likely cost me more than my Golf.

Would have been a lot slower though

[Commanderfish]

Originally Posted by Graham P

True that they are going to be more expensive to begin with but I am just surprised at how much people are still asking for their high powered petrol cars in this current climate whereas GTA's etc are going for peanuts. Mk V Golf R32's for example are still pretty expensive

This is really quite simple. A person is smart but PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS.

People believe market perceptions, informed by old prejudices, which then become reality in the form of residuals values.

Now a really interesting one is what are the depreciation rates for other famously "unreliable" cars like TVRs and Lotuses?

NB The Alfa "unreliability" is a perception in this country and not on the continent (e.g. Alfa sells a lot of units in Germany of all places). I do suspect that the Alfa reliablility jokes of the 70s were an attempt to shift focus from the WOEFUL build quality and reliability of the British car industry in the 70s. Much easier to distract everyone by banging on about "the bloody ities and their shonky rusty cars" than actually improve the quality of your own cars when most of the workforce is on strike...

[symon]

Also remember that companies such as Ford, BMW and VW were also building cars which rusted badly in the 1970's...

Funny how these companies have lost their rusty reputation yet Alfa seemt to have kept it, even though none of them rust too much nowadays.

[Rushy55]

I agree with last two posts. To add, who can forget the rusty legends of Vauxhall cars in 70s and 80s. we all know Lotus was an acronym for Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious.

[symon]

The Mk3 Ford Cortina had a very bad reputation for rust, yet that is forgotten. Even pretty Modern Fords such as the Mk4 fiesta and original Ka rust badly.

Yet Fords still sell in huge numbers.

[Rushy55]

I won't have a bad word said about the mk3 cortina!!!!!! My 1st and 3rd car (+3 more cortinas..)

[MalcQV]

My first car too (MKIII). I did have to replace front and rear valance. Two front wings and two new outer sills. They were rot boxes but I loved mine then