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Autocar on the 149 & next 159...

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149 autocar
5K views 122 replies 33 participants last post by  alfisti1 
#1 ·
"Alfa Romeo’s successor to the 159 saloon will revive the historic Giulia name, Autocar has learned.

The resurgent Italian brand plans to base the new car on a slightly longer version of the []forthcoming 149 platform[]. The wheelbase will be extended to about 2.7 metres, with the commonality helping to streamline manufacture and cut costs.

Italian insiders say the current 159’s platform (developed mainly by Saab when GM and Fiat were partners) is too heavy, too expensive to build and is also unlikely to meet the new US crash regulations.

Like its smaller 149 sibling, the Giulia is being prepared for launch in the US, so Alfa must ensure that both cars will meet all environmental and safety standards on both sides of the Atlantic.

The 159’s disappointing sales performance means that the Giulia is being rushed through the development stages, and is likely to be unveiled in 2010. Insiders confirm that Fiat boss Sergio Marchionne has recently signed-off the styling of the new saloon.

The Giulia is expected to follow the design trend set by the Mito and will have 8C Competizione-derived looks.

Alfa 149.....

The new car will arrive just a few months behind the VW Golf, and is expected to pitched slightly further upmarket than today’s 147. Alfa’s production target for the new car is a modest 100,000 per year and prices are expected to kick off at around £15,000.

Engines will include both petrol (including the new camless Multiair design) and diesel units ranging between 120bhp and 250bhp. Clever ‘Q2’ clever front differentials will be offered to maximise traction, although a rumoured four-wheel drive option seems unlikely now.

Although it’s currently known as the 149, the production car is likely to carry a different moniker, with Alfa looking for to give the car a name following the pattern set by the Mito. Like the Mito, the 149’s styling will again be inspired by the Alfa 8C supercar.

Although these first spy shots show that the 149 test mule is based on a Fiat Bravo, Autocar understands that Alfa engineers have made significant modifications to the Bravo platform.

Aside from a slight wheelbase stretch, the 149 will get an all-new independent rear suspension system. Italian sources say it will be a ‘three-arm’ design, similar to that used by BMW’s Mini. This set-up will be a significant advance on the beam axle used by the Bravo.

In addition, the structure will be getting a major crash worthiness upgrade. As well as targeting the upcoming six-star EuroNCAP rating, the 149 chassis will be able to meet stringent new US market crash regulations. Italian sources say that a proposed new round of regulations will centre on resistance to heavy rear-impacts.

Later this decade, Italian sources say that the 149 platform will also spawn coupe and cabrio versions, which are expected to replace the heavy, expensive and slow-selling Brera and Spider.

Autocar also understands that plans for an Alfa SUV spun of the 149 platform have been shelved in light of environmental concerns and falling segment sales. "



Being an Alfa fan, this is great news!
 
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#2 ·
On the 149:

"Engines will include both petrol (including the new camless Multiair design) and diesel units ranging between 120bhp and 250bhp. Clever ‘Q2’ clever front differentials will be offered to maximise traction, although a rumoured four-wheel drive option seems unlikely now."

250bhp? A 149 GTA?
 
#5 ·
"Later this decade, Italian sources say that the 149 platform will also spawn coupe and cabrio versions, which are expected to replace the heavy, expensive and slow-selling Brera and Spider."

ooOOOOOoooo interested
 
#9 ·
I remember when the 156 came out, they seemed to be almost common. It seems to be very rare that I see a 159, though they are getting a bit more common now. I've probably still only seen five or six in my life though.
 
#11 ·
Yes, it's a pity.. I think the '59 will only grow in stature as the cars get older, a bit like the 155 did.

The replacement should be pretty good if it's based on the Bravo platform.. the fact that it's being "rushed through" isn't anything too significant.. Fiat managed to get the Bravo built and in the shops inside 15 months or something.. Fiat currently seem to be ahead of the game in the Computer Aided Design and Simulation thing..

But I dunno if it's ALL good news.. the next '59 should be a rear-wheel-driver, I think.

Ralf S.
 
#29 ·
But I dunno if it's ALL good news.. the next '59 should be a rear-wheel-driver, I think.

Ralf S.
Not if, as the article says, it is being built on a stretched 149 (new Bravo with multi-link rear suspension) platfom :(

I think it's a shame that they say the 149 probably won't be getting 4WD :( :( :(
Nah, I think 4WD is a waste of time really. FWD when you're making a small car or a big car on the cheap, RWD when you want to make a proper sports saloon. 4WD doesn't really serve a purpose unless the car is massively powerful and two wheels can't get it all down properly. Just more transmission losses and so you get decreased performance and higher emissions.
 
#12 ·
This sound very promising. Alfas current line up is lacking something... apart from the 8C (which by all accounts has its own problems) the only models that seem to be worth while are the 147 & the GT. The 159 looks great but is pretty lack lustre, the Brera looks like a 159 from the front, therefore is not exclusive enough and is a disappointment to drive. On top of that the current range of Alfa engines are to be blunt c**p - At least alfa have admitted it was a mistake doing the whole GM thing!

I past my test in an Alfasud sprint Veloce in 1985 and have owned 21 Alfas since then, I have Alfa running through my veins you could say - Yet current alfa range almost brings a tear to my eye from disappointment.

lets hope they bring out something worthy of their badge this time... the 916 GTV was nearly it and I think the 147 & the GT came so close to the Alfasud... But great Alfas of the past were great because they were designed from the ground up, they were not based on another platform. I cannot believe that until they start using bespoke designs again we will ever see another truly great Alfa Romeo, and that is why BMW will continue to produce better sports cars - as much as it pains me to say.

I like my GT & 916GTV but when i drive my 1986 GTV6 despite all of its idiosyncrasies (and there are many!) the handling, and finesse of the car is in a different league, it feels special and amazingly its 20 years old. If Alfa had carried on developing these ideas they would have a truly great platform of their own. Instead we have a truly average platform.

lets see what the future brings....
 
#17 ·
lets see what the future brings....
the future will need to bring a dozen lottery wins before alfa can develop their own platform. for the foreseeable future all alfas (and lancias) will be based on a fiat platform, as confirmed by fiat last year.

for example the grande punto became the mito, and the bravo will become the 149. there is no fiat platform that is suitable for a 159 replacement now or planned for the future, so it will need to be borrowed from someone else. lets hope for the best, lets hope for a jag RWD platform.
 
#14 ·
I know Mercedes were using camless engines on their F1 engines, before they were banned at the same time the V8 engines came in. McLarens were always breaking down due to "Hydraulic failure"

It just doesn't happen now they are back to good old fashioned springs.

lets just hope the technology isn't being built by Bosch...
 
#23 ·
Part of the 159's problem IMO, is not that it is a bad car, its just many owners came from other brands to the 156 (and 147).
They were not used to checking the oil each week and many engines got wrecked. Then there was the cambelt fiasco, as well as things like wishbone bushes failing before they should do.

On top of that most of of the dealers were below par.
These buyers won't be returning in a hurry to buy a 159 as they think it will be the same, even if it is not.

I am not slating the 156 BTW is is probably my Favorite Alfa, it is just many of the people who bought them were not expecting them to be as high maintenance as they are.
 
#26 ·
I notice, as usual, that those who critiscise the 159 don't own one. Believe me, it's the best Alfa saloon for a very long time and it's been peoples experience with the 156 hat has harmed its reputation and damaged the sales. That and inarguably inaccurate motoring press, who continue to critiscise the weight despite the fact that it is comparable to the competition. The Autocar article is a prime example of this; to say that the platform is unlikely to match American safety standards when it's a stiffer platform than the equivalent BMW or Audi chassis is just plain cack.
 
#32 ·
Most important part, for me at least, is that RWD will come back to Alfa :thumbs: :thumbs:

This means that my next leaser, after the current BMW, can be an Alfa again ! Quite nice actually :inlove:
 
G
#44 ·
Front Wheel Drive doesn't seem to have harmed Audi that much. I think Fraser is pretty close when he says that 159 sales were compromised by poor ownership experience with the 156. People gave Alfa a chance and they blew it. The dealers have improved vastly, but the improvement was needed in the 156 era to give 159 a chance.

I also think that tactically 159 is too big being 164/166 sized, which is never that popular a sector. Otherwise, apart form inconsistency of quality, th 159 is a massive step forward from the 156.

Camless engines eh...you only have to speak to 156 TS owners to find out that Alfa have been doing this for years...unintentionally...which is at least half the problem I'm sorry to say.:mad:

If todays owners like their 159s then they will be back for another Alfa. Its not a car that has let Alfa down, its the other way round due to previous shortcomings. Fiat is resurgent, and that has to be good news for Alfa.

AlfaLincs
 
#45 ·
But the 'cooking' Audi's are 4WD, and that seems to have had a trickle-down effect on the rest of the range. People see the A4 as a competitor to the 3 Series and yet see a 159 and think "lovely, shame its wrong-wheel-drive". I don't understand it.

But I think Fiat should develop a decent RWD platform that can be used for future Alfa's and Lancia's. They can afford to do it now, it should be made a priority.
 
#50 ·
That's cos some of us took em for a test drive first
Ditto. Borrowed a 159 2.4 for a week. Fantastic JTD engine of course but the fuel consumption was horrific and it felt like navigating an enormous lumbering barge round the twisty bits. Having tried to match the Germans and ending in abject failure, you may as well go out and get a 3 series 325d or 330d (or even a 335d if you want to go inter-galactic).

In short, the 159 is NOT an Alfa Romeo.
 
#51 ·
In short, the 159 is NOT an Alfa Romeo.
I have to agree!

Have just read an article on the Mito in Evo Magazine... Its pretty much an Arbath Grade Punto :-(

Anyway in my opinion the last real Alfa Romeo was the 75, howver the 916 GTV, 147 and the GT are cars with Alfa soul. The 147 is probably the best Alfa since the Alfasud in my opinion.

If you coudl jump back to the 1970s and drive an Alfasud, or a GTV (or GTV6 in early 80s) the were cars that set new standards! This is where Alfa should be today.

I'm glad to hear Alfa have fired the ex BMW guy who inspired the 159 & the Brera. Its also please to hear that there is a high possibilty of Alfa developing their own RWD platform for future models. This is good news! Please let them start developing engines again! This is where they really excelled!
 
#53 ·
I know it wasn't exactly ground breaking but the 159 does look better than a BMW though, you will have to admit. :rolleyes:
 
#55 ·
When alfa has its US launch, I gladly would buy the weight reduced 946 spider in awd autobox form with the ti pack and the new high output V6. The chassis should be strong enough to meet the new standards for our market. We in the US would still buy the 159, but if the launch schedule can be kept with the new Giulia, then a coupe and spider should arrive with it IMO. I have not heard of any further launch delays.
 
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