Dealer said ex Alfa car, V5 says ex Hertz !!!

OH MY GOD!

I have just bought a 56 plate 1.9 JTDm from Meridian Milano in Portsmouth.

I specifically asked the questions when was it registered and who owned it previously. When I asked the first he actually went and looked at the V5. The answer to the second was Alfa Romeo "probably some accountant at head office" is what he said.

When the V5 arrived I didn't go over it that closely, but I have had a lot of work done under warranty and I have started to notice slight 'imperfections' with the car, like a front and rear bumpers have been re-sprayed at least.

I have now looked at the V5 and it says HERTZ! Man I am p****d off. I have rung the dealer who is meant to be coming back to me and Alfa customer services, who have opened a case and given me a reference number.

My argument is the car is not what I expected and they have lied to me. I have also questioned what Approved Alfa Romeo means and they cannot answer. So I looked it up. It says:

“To prove our commitment to you, we guarantee that when you choose an Alfa Romeo Approved Used Car we will live up to the following:
History Check
No nasty surprises
The complete history of each Alfa Romeo Approved Used Car is thoroughly checked by an authorised Alfa Romeo dealer. No need for you to worry about its past.
Alfa Romeo's History Check includes: Comprehensive Vehicle Check to:
- Establish whether the car has been stolen or written-off
- Confirm the car's true identity
- Its registration date
- Its number plate and chassis number - do they match?

Pre-sales Inspection
If it doesn't pass our quality test, we don't sell it
Following our multi-point inspection, cars that require work on them receive it before going anywhere near the Alfa Romeo forecourt.”

This is a real joke. When I received the car it went back for 2 weeks worth of work to put it right so the “Pre-sales Inspection” doesn't exist or the standards are so low its unbelievable. Now I have seen the history thing well….

I was happy with the car, but the gloss is wearing off and the truth is I have traded in an 04 plate Audi 2.0tdi for this and the Audi was in better condition. I feel short changed.

I honestly think if anyone has experienced this then complain as it seems to be more than a couple of people. The more people there are the better chance we all have of finding a resolution.

I have to say i love the car, but it is not what i thought i bought and i do feel cheated, but i also don't know what i want them to do about it as i have had the car for 70+ days.

Originally Posted by Commanderfish

Incidentally, what do we call mileage in metric?! Kilometrage?!

Yup.

Thanks for your replies / advice guys.

The salesman had his day off today, so I will speak to him tomorrow to get his side of the story and let you know the outcome.

Dkelly, I would be grateful if you could let me know what Meridian say about what it means when its is an ex Hertz car. Do Alfa indeed lease through Hertz or was it really ex hire.

I will also phone Alfa customer services tomorrow to get a case number and see what they have got to say about it.

Originally Posted by SPPalfa

Jim that was a well constructed post and pretty good advice all round

Thanks SPP.

Originally Posted by The South Moroccan

Dkelly, I would be grateful if you could let me know what Meridian say about what it means when its is an ex Hertz car. Do Alfa indeed lease through Hertz or was it really ex hire.

It is illogical to think the manufacturer would sell his vehicles to Hertz, at a hefty discount (I know all hire companies enjoy - my brother is in that business), only to lease them back at presumably higher cost because Hertz are in it for profit.

What sometimes happens is, as I understand it, a manufacturer will offer an attractive package to a hire company to get vehicles registered or simply to get them interested in adding more to their fleet. The deal will often include a buy-back clause or other disposal arrangement.

It is far more likely that Hertz effectively "rented" the car off Alfa UK.

Just as a matter of interest, why is there a feeling that an ex-Alfa company car will be any better treated than a hire car ??????


When I worked for ARGB (I know it was a while ago) we used to thrash the living daylights out of them.

Hi Gibbo

I don't think there is an opinion that one is worst then the other, or that a hire car will be in a worse condition than a privately owned car, the issues i have is that I specifically asked the dealer certain questions and he absolutely bare face lied to me.

The stupid thing is it is so easy to check. I have never met a car dealer that knows his product, but I do expect an honest reply. It just undermines the whole owning experiance. I don't mind what the truth is as long as i know then i can make a valued judgement, as i said this with the issues and other things coming to light i feel changes ones perception.


Hi The South Moroccan

I will let you know, but as you may have expected I have yet to be called back.

DK

I'm afraid it seems to be part of the selling process in this country. I don't think it's confined to the motor trade. There is this overwhelming trend for salesmen to tell you what they think you want to hear rather than the truth. They are just sh1t scared that they will lose their commission. Very few of them understand the concept of respect for honesty. And as I say, it's a trait of most salesmen

Being misled or deliberately otherwise is never nice. They should be prepared to give your money back if thats what you want. Even if ex ARUK cars are registered to hertz you should have been told.

Having said that, aren't very low mileage cars a bit of a minefield anyway? After all, the only people that can afford to sell good cars with 10000 miles on them are the hire companies. Otherwise someone has taken a massive financial hit and still preferred that to keeping a "Friday" car with loads of problems.

We own a car that belonged to a hire company in Jersey, not the same potential for abuse I know but to me it shows that even a perfect, blemish free low mileage car can have a hidden past.

When you go back to speak to the Salesman turn on the Sound Recorder in your mobilephone. This should give you 60 Mins of good quality recording.

Ask him again where the car came from and see what he says. Then you have your evidence, people never question that you have your phone with you.

If he says Hetrz then maybe you misunderstood.

Originally Posted by charliet2001

If you are happy to keep the car, i would take it back to them and say, you sold me this car under the impression it was an ex demo as it is an ex hire car, tell them to do all of the usual engine checks and change any parts that tend to wear out quickly along with throwing in a full warranty if not already done so.

Also, tell them that if they are not willing to do this then they can have the car back for a full refund.

If they say no, go straight to Alfa uk and deal with them.

If this deosn't work then, i'm out of ideas.

i agree with you on this one....

Originally Posted by Gibbo

And as I say, it's a trait of most salesmen

Gibbo I have to say that’s unfair.

A salesperson would achieve a sale based upon both parties being happy. Anyone who doesn't is taking an order but not a salesperson or selling, and that is the problem with car dealerships, because they do not know the first thing about having to work for a sale. The decision is 85 - 95% made by the time the customer has walked through the door. All they have to do is 'close' the deal, meaning take the deposit, the rest is already done by the customer themselves.

All I am saying is just because I hold a paintbrush that doesn't make me a painter and decorator.

I am a painter & decorator

And I wrote based on my experience. We might be using the wrong word when calling order takers salesmen, but we do so to such an extent that most people don't realise the difference. I don't think my comment was unfair really as it was based on my own findings when dealing with salesmen (or order takers) in all walks of life.

It is popular to single out the motor trade, especially on a car forum, but I have found it to be true in other environments too.

Too many people in a selling situation are scared to say 'I don't know' and opt to make up something that seems to fit the customers requirements.

Im the sort of person that would be tempted to drive it through the sales showroom window for being lied to. Fact is sales people do sometimes flex the truth and sometimes get it wrong. 73GTVJim is wise. What he has said is very sensible.

Originally Posted by Oliver_K

Im the sort of person that would be tempted to drive it through the sales showroom window for being lied to. Fact is sales people do sometimes flex the truth and sometimes get it wrong. 73GTVJim is wise. What he has said is very sensible.

Thats the sort of thing I might do, I would make sure the garage owner was aware of it. Although I wouldn't actually say it.

There is flexing the truth, and telling lies. Both are completely different things.

Originally Posted by Gibbo

I am a painter & decorator

And I wrote based on my experience. We might be using the wrong word when calling order takers salesmen, but we do so to such an extent that most people don't realise the difference. I don't think my comment was unfair really as it was based on my own findings when dealing with salesmen (or order takers) in all walks of life.

It is popular to single out the motor trade, especially on a car forum, but I have found it to be true in other environments too.

Too many people in a selling situation are scared to say 'I don't know' and opt to make up something that seems to fit the customers requirements.

Gibbo, please forgive me i couldn't help myself . Everything i said is true but i used the analogy because i read your profile. As you have probably guessed I am a salesperson who is tired of these t*****s giving what is a great job a bad name.

I do agree with what you said but the thought that they are part of my profession is hard to take.

I didn't mean to cause offense or pick a fight just some light hearted banter.

DK

Spoke to the salesman today and I explained my concerns. My approach was to be very calm, asking for his help in explaining how an Alfa car could be registered to Hertz, rather than getting all hot and bothered about it at this stage...plenty time for that later if necessary !

I actually quite like the sales guy, so I was pleased that he agreed with me that he did indeed tell me that it was an ex Alfa car. He agreed to go away and find out the history of the car and get back to me, and he was straight enough with me to acknowledge that he could not offer an explanation at this stage.

I explained that if he could prove with written confirmation from either Alfa, Hertz or ideally both parties that the car had not been a hire car but had been a contract / lease car with one driver, then I would accept this, safe in the knowledge that this written confirmation could be used to reassure anyone buying the car from me.

If however the car was a hire car, then I explained that I wanted a replacement car.

I'll let you know how I get on. I hope my early doors confidence that he is a good guy who will do all he can to help, is proven to be justified.

There is of course one glaringly obvious question that I will ask at the appropriate time, don't salesman properly check the history / V5's of the cars they are selling, so that they make sure they get their stories right when the talk to customers.

Like dkelly, I am sales person of sorts myself, so I know all about getting ones story right before engaging with the customer. Seems to me if your a salesman, and you are straight with people, they'll keep coming back for more ! Obviously not always the case in the motortrade, but I'm hopefull it will be in this case.

Part of the problem here is the way that the V5 is used when the car is sold. iirc if you sell your car to a dealer they take the main part of the form and you send off the yellow section 9. How could they not know who exactly the previous owner was

The car probably came from ARUK and so the salesman would know it as "one of the cars that came from ARUK". He probably didn't know or think to check the name of Hertz vs ARUK on the V5.

It's more likely to be carelessness than a deliberate lie.


Ralf S.