Motor Control System Failure - Check your Battery

[rarebear]

I am driving a Sele for almost a decade ! the battery is really the heart of the system.. don't get trapped in replacing sensors etc chekc the battery for internal resistance and voltage output ! if it is over 4 years old replace it with a new one with 65 AH at least !

[Pandith]

Thanks Ian,

I encountered the same problem in two cars, both 156's I now own a 156 TI Limited Edition, and still encounter the same!.

Having said, your experience is very helpful.

Regards

Jay

[ppatterson]

I am having the same problem with the ecb but i am also getting immobiliser failure.

i have been told that the battery is fine when i got it serviced - i was told that i need to get another key and that i had a code failure issue.

anyway bottom line is i need a new key and a computer reset - before i bring it in to hand over 400 euro - does anybody have a quick fix solution - The timing belt and both sensors have all been replaced and it passed a service - could it be something simple (less expensive)

[Probusterrace]

I had a recent 'Motor control system failure' alarm.

Looked at a number of threads recommending a range of things from checking the battery to possible problems with Lamda sensors or the MAF.

In the end it was simply water in the plug hole for spark plug no. 2!

Simple as that. Not sure how it got there, inspite of the heavy rain the day before, but apparently water in that particular hole is fairly common.

Still needed to use the examiner at my local indie to determine the cause, but I was all set to spend money on the wrong type of thing. In the end it cost an hour of labour and needed no new parts.

[realslimshady]

i got mcsf warning an hour after picking her up...diagnostics said boost pressure switch-reset-went again an hour later. replaced switch
warning stayed on, then went off. Had her serviced diagnosis said unknown fault. Absolutely fine for 3 or 4 days-stonking in fact-then back on,limp home mode. Next start up, reset itself, then back again,reset, back again and now on permanently...but perfectly driveable-except when goes into limp home mode unexpectedly (usually when overtaking!)switch off and on again and performance restored..
booked into AH Motorsport on Tuesday to fix, will mention battery to him..any views (or feedback on AHM) welcome..

[m3ckon]

Hi there,

I'm getting Motorl Control System Failure on my 147 1.6 TS. I have been for about 4 months now. I take it to be serviced at an Italian Specialist in North London called Continental Cars. They have been very fair and have reset the ECU for me several times (at no cost) but the computer is not explaining what the error is.

I'll try the battery theory as it sounds like a good idea! In the meantime, I was wondering if anyone here had tried that fix on an Alfa 147 ?

[damienb]

I have read this thread with growing dread. My 156JTS is in the hospital needing - Woodcock's of Hull tell me - two Lambdas. Problem is when they went to change them the mechanic found one had been hard wired onto the loom and the join covered in mastic. This homemade joint has now failed and the garage will not put the new sensor in as they cannot put a warrenty on the work.
I am now trying to source a connector for a JTS loom with about 6ins of wire still on it to repplace the missing connector block - anyone got any ideas?

[Paulus]

Try your local scrappies!

[zulu ferret]

Batteries can be one of the most frequent causes of electrical problems.: If in doubt, get a new one! Nobody wishes to squander money unecessarily, but heavens above, the aggravation suspect ones cause doesn't bear consideration, for the costings of a replacement, IMO.: If this doesn't rectify the problem, at least you should have the re-assurance that the battery is fine. Assuming of course you weren't 'flogged' a cheap duff item?

[Fidge]

I may not know much about cars but I know the FIRST thing any garage should check for an error message like that is the condition of the battery. It's the first thing any road side assistant would check and it's simply not acceptable that these Alfa Dealers cannot diagnose the correct problem on their own cars!

Sorry to hear about your dismay Ian, but well done for posting it. I'll be very wary in a year or so as my car battery gets older.

[Dibby]

Another cause of these random safe mode errors and ECS failure - as I found out this morning - could be to do with the Exhaust Gas Recirculation valve.

So far, I've had the turbo boost sensoor and the accelerator body changed, now the EGR vlave ... wondering what it will be next time!

[troy141]

I signed up 10 minutes ago as I thought someone may help me with a VDC problem on my 156 and the first one I click on is yours !!! Fantastic. Great advice. The first thing I'll do is check the battery. Could have saved me hundreds. Thanks again. I'll let you know how I got on.
Troy

[Paulus]

Originally Posted by troy141

I signed up 10 minutes ago as I thought someone may help me with a VDC problem on my 156 and the first one I click on is yours !!! Fantastic. Great advice. The first thing I'll do is check the battery. Could have saved me hundreds. Thanks again. I'll let you know how I got on.
Troy

YEY TROY! GO FOR IT!

The battery thing is a bit like the camera battery argument for using re-chargeable NI-MHs rather than Duracells.

If you put Duracells in a torch they start at (say) 6v then godown after 20% of their possible life to 5v; then another 20% of their life 4v (by which time they do not have sufficient VOLTAGE to power a camera so you only get 25% or so of the available power used), then 3v, 2v and so on if they still work. Sort of a straight line graph thing. Works fine on a torch or a bell though, probably go on for 90% of its possible life. Not on a camera which requires the higher volts to power its electronics.

On the other hand NI-MHs Volts stay within the 6v-5v range for a lot longer then suddenly fizzle out to almost zero and therefore are far more useful in a camers. AND you can recharge them!

Relating this to car batteries causing electronics problems in Alfas (and others) you will see that when a poor battery is being hard pressed (winter driving with all lights, screens, heaters etc. turned on, or WHEN STARTING!) the voltage may drop below the critical level and the electronics will get all confused and not know what day it is, yet the engine will still crank fine!

Well if you stuck through that I hope you got something out of it!

Paulus

[Probusterrace]

Originally Posted by troy141

I signed up 10 minutes ago as I thought someone may help me with a VDC problem on my 156 and the first one I click on is yours !!! Fantastic. Great advice. The first thing I'll do is check the battery. Could have saved me hundreds. Thanks again. I'll let you know how I got on.
Troy

Cool. Welcome to AO. Hope you find many more useful threads in the future.

[Joski]

Hi

I've been reading this thread for some time, so I thought it was time to bite the bullet and buy a new battery. On changing the battery the VCD error I often got has disappeared for good (fingers crossed) however I'm still suffering the Motor Control System Failure.

This always occurs when I put my foot down in 3rd Gear; the car occasionally hesitates too during the sudden acceleration but then returns. I've also noticed that during harsh acceleration in 2nd gear the Motor Control System Failure doesn't light up but boy does the power drop, it feels like the engine is either getting flooded with fuel or not enough air is getting in. Is there anyone out there who has had a similar issue and managed to resolve it?

Oh and I forgot to mention, it's an Alfa 156 2.4 JTD 10v Veloce and the loss of power normally occurs around 2-3000rpm. The turbo sounds sweet and whines like it did the day I bought the car, so I think the turbo isn’t at fault as it does pull like a bat out of hell but this sudden loss of power has got me mystified. Could it be a sensor or something more serious?

Your help will be much appreciated.

[Paulus]

Sorry but ten valve diesels were never my strong point.

Paulus

[harrydosanjh]

hi people! basically ive just had my battery changed, and now my cd player, a/c, heating controls and alarm have stopped working. i did try jump starting it a few times before i had the battery changed and i no i shouldn have. however my car is running perfectely. so could u guys help me please. thank u
p.s someone told me about reset??? i dont no how to do that

[Paulus]

Originally Posted by harrydosanjh

Hi people! Basically I've just had my battery changed, and now my cd player, a/c, heating controls and alarm have stopped working. I did try jump starting it a few times before I had the battery changed and I know I shouldn't have. however my car is running perfectely, so could you guys help me please. Thank you
p.s. someone told me about reset??? I don't no how to do that

When I had the new battery on the 156 I was lucky enough to use a man who knew what he was doing. He maintained secondary current to the car while he swapped the batts over and I didn't loose nuffink, to use the modern idiom.

Now I realise that will not help you, Harry, but others reading might make use of it.

CD player might just need re-coding (is it the standard Alfa player or an after-market Sanyo/Sony/Panasonic/Pioneer jobby?), alarm re-setting (check owners manual-it varies from model to model), but as for the heater-A/C you need someone cleaverer than me I am afraid.

Hope you get it sorted

Paulus

[harrydosanjh]

NO cheers its all good, i found out that i had blew a fuse which took out everything else. just changed the fuse and everything back to normal, except the air bag light which does not disappear. cheers

[Paulus]

Originally Posted by harrydosanjh

except the air bag light which does not disappear. cheers

Check on the nearside of the dashboard (where the passanger door closes) to see if the airbags are turned off. This enables you to carry a baby seat on the nsf seat.

Put the Ign key in the slot, turn 90 degrees and viola it should (may) cure the problem!

Paulus

[snackage]

Ta for the post - one to watch.

Don't spend more than £50 on diagnostics: lots of places can diagnose newer Alfas - perhaps due to Bosch electronics. Think you should expect to pay £30-£50.

I've had 2 lamdas and the crank sensor replaced thanks to diagnostics - and so far so good, fingers crossed!

[P8SPF]

I,ve just had my lambdas hardwired in as I used to get this fault every two/three months. Alfa organised it - so far so good - touch wood!

[mixy]

Hey, guess what, my 2004 156 2.0 JTS has started mis-firing and juddering (you know what I mean) and the dreaded message popped up on my display....... I took a photo of the message so that I could research the 'exact' fault and never expected to find so much about the subject on this forum. So after reading your advice, this is my action plan;
1. Use my local technician who has always looked after my cars,and advise him to check battery/sensors etc. (ps, if you live in Stockport and want a good tech, contact me)
2. Don't even think of going to a main agent!
That should do it and will be the cheapest option.

I will let you know the outcome as and when.

Thanks for all your notes on this subject, it is good to get 'real' feedback on potentially the same problem.

[mixy]

Hi Alfanano/Anyone else
If I disconnect my battery for 15mins are you saying that it will have the same effect on the cars memory as taking it in and getting it re-set? If so I will try this before I do any further work. If I do this will it lose any radio/alarm codes? Also, is this a coincidence but about the same time that my car has the MCSF message, my alarm remote is working intermitantly??? Anyone else had this?

[mixy]

FYI.

I took my car to the tech that I use and he plugged it into a Bosch Diagnostic machine, the MCSF notice was a 'mis fire' on cyl4. My guy reckons it could be a coil pack. He has re-set my ECU and suggested I run the car to see what happens... Guess what.... A misfire on the way home.... A guy at work used a guy in Stoke from Ebay to put a recon engine in his car after a big end failure, i'll try him first for a coil pack...I'll keep you updated.

PS My battery was showing 12.9v and was working fine. Not that then... Oh, and my AC system now just blows out hot air after disconnecting my battery....wierd car! Any thoughts on this?

Mixy