stilo 1.9 jtd will not start

[garymaule]

hello guys


i have a problem with my 2003 reg fiat stilo 1.9 jtd i know this is an alfa forum but thought it was worth a try to post here incase anyone had the same issue as me as the jtd 1.9 engines are similar to alfa models too i believe

ok here goes here is what i posted on the fiatforum

hello guys

i nned some help please if anyone has somespare time my stilo 1.9 jtd cut out on me after running for 15 mins and won't start at all now

last week i was driving along the motorway and the yellow engine management light came on with an error on the dash saying engine fault, car still drove ok at this point upon getting off the motorway i turned the engine off ............20 mins later when i turned the ignition key to mar the yellow engine management light stayed lit and the engine would not start

left it another 20 mins and the car started ok and the yellow engine management light went off and the car drove fine

yesterday i drove it for 15 mins and it cut out and will not start at all now even from a cold start

recharged the battery and went out again today and it turns over ok but will still not start and the yellow engine management light won't go out and i also got water in fuel error so i replaced the fuel filter and could hear the fuel rushing through to fill the filter after putting the ignition to mar ( i think i got water in fuel error due to the battery being drained)

the fuel cut off switch next to the passenger footwell i think must be ok as there is fuel going to the filter but i'm unsure as to how to test the cut off switch

i also tried a snapon microscan code reader on it but it would not read any codes maybe i need an elm or vag-com lead


car is a 2003 1.9 jtd with 92.000 on the clock with a full service history

really stumped as to what my next step should be here should i do any more checks to make sure fuel is getting to the injectors etc


next step

update..........car still not starting went out today removed the egr solonoid (4 allen key bolts) and the pin in the middle of it is not siezed it was also quite clean compared to some of the photos i've seen of other folks i also checked the other end of the egr and the spring loaded valve there can be pushed in and out ok

next i turned the ignition on and there is definately no pulse at the egr valve , question is now would anything else like a crankshaft sensor failure tell the ecu to disable the signal to the egr thus no pulse or could the egr be faulty

still awaiting my diag cables as there is no post due to the bad weather here

while i was at it i blanked off the egr valve and also disconnected the maf sensor and tried to start her up but still no joy it just turns over not even trying to start , no smoke from the exhaust

also checked all fuses for the fuel injection system and there all ok

only thing i can think of now is the crankshaft sensor which i've bought and have it here but i'm unsure if i need to go under the car to fit this if i do its a no go due to the snow here

next step

update for anyone following this i managed to get it hooked up with fiatecuscan and have the following

READING ERROR CODES:
1: P0110 - Air temperature sensor
Intake Air Temperature Circuit Malfunction
The reason for this fault is that ECU has received very high signal from the sensor. The fault is not detected now, but it is stored in memory. Clear fault codes, and observe for future appearance of the same fault. Dashboard warning light was not activated for this fault.
2: P0101 - Air flow meter
Mass or Volume Air Flow Circuit Range/Performance Problem
The reason for this fault is that ECU has received very low signal from the sensor. The fault is not detected now, but it is stored in memory. Clear fault codes, and observe for future appearance of the same fault. Dashboard warning light was not activated for this fault.
3: P0235 - Supercharging pressure
Boost Pressure sensor A circuit malfunction
The reason for this fault is that ECU has received very low signal from the sensor. The fault is not detected now, but it is stored in memory. Clear fault codes, and observe for future appearance of the same fault. Dashboard warning light was activated for this fault.
4: P0404 - EGR
Exhaust Gas Recirculation Circuit Range/Performance
The reason for this fault is that ECU did not receive signal from the sensor. The fault is not detected now, but it is stored in memory. Clear fault codes, and observe for future appearance of the same fault. Dashboard warning light was not activated for this fault.


the above error codes were created by me when i disconnected the maf and egr and boost connectors

reset the errors and the engine light is off now but the car still does not start

hooked it up again to fiatecuscan and no errors show

a bit of other info i got is


READ PARAMETERS:
Odometer: 858,993.4 km
Engine overrevs: 0
Max overrev time: 0 ms
Max engine speed: 0 rpm
Odometer at last rewrite: 0.0 km
Fuel Temperature: 5.4 °C
Engine Speed: 0 rpm
Fuel Metering: 39.08 mg/i
Pre-injection fuel quantity: 0.0 mg/i
Total Fuel Quantity: 0.00 mg/i
Fuel Pressure: 1.8 bar
Fuel Pressure Signal: 0.503 V
Desired Fuel Pressure: 506.7 bar
Fuel Pressure Regulator: 1.23 %
Pre-injection Time: 0.000 ms
Injection Time: 0.000 ms
Injection Timing: 0.00 deg.
Pre-Injection Timing: 0.00 deg.
Universal Code: Not enabled
Boost Control/Sol.: 75.00 %
Boost Control/Sol.: Not active
Boost Pressure: 1,007 mBar
Desired Boost Pressure: 1,440 mBar
Actual EGR: 1.00 %
Capacitor 1 Voltage: 0.299 V
Pedal Pos. Track 1: 0.728 V
Pedal Pos. Track 2: 0.371 V
Vehicle speed: 0.00 km/h
Air Temperature: 12.7 °C
Air temperature signal: 3.226 V
Baro Pressure: 1,007 mBar
Baro Pressure signal: 3.979 V
Intake Air Quantity: 3,276.8 mg/i
Desired Intake Air Quantity: 1,101.7 mg/i
Air Flow Signal: 0.836 V
Glow plug heater module: Not active
CAN data line: OK
Gas Pedal Position: 0.00 %
Engine Temperature: 7.3 °C
Engine Temperature Signal: 4.252 V
Engine/ECU stop: Not active
Battery Voltage: 11.759 V
Injector 1 Class: Class 1
Injector 2 Class: Class 1
Injector 3 Class: Class 1
Injector 4 Class: Class 1
Glow Indicator Light: OFF
Malfunction Indicator Light: OFF
Engine Overheat light: OFF
Fuel Pump: Not active
Ignition Key Position: MAR
EGR Command: Not active
Immobilizer: key status: Programmed
Engine Start Permission: Allowed
Preheating C.U. diagnostics: OK
Oil Pressure Status: Not OK
Oil Pressure Indicator: ON
Water in fuel: Not present


next step

guys i hooked up fiatecuscan with crankshaft sensor removed and tried to start the engine to see what errors would come up........eml came on and i got rpm sensor error

fitted the new crankshaft sensor , cleared all errors and it still won't start

ran fiatecuscan again and no errors come up

next i sprayed some cold start in the air intake and it ran for a couple of seconds then died again

i then disconnected the fuel output pipe from the fuel filter and put a bottle in against it and got the misses to turn the ignition to the mar position and the fuel flowed into the bottle, next i slackened of an injector and cranked the engine over a few times and fuel flows out at the injector

any ideas guys what to check for next i'm stumped i can't even get it to my local garage as the roads are too icy to tow anything just now


sorry for the long text but i thought the more details the better

i just put a fully charged battery into it and tried to start it and it will not start it just turns over

no eml lights are on and no error codes

car has fuel in it


help help LoL

[ALFA TUNER]

Is the new crank sensor a genuine item,ie Fiat/Bosch?
You obviously have no fuel injecting and the only two things that can stop the injectors switching on (exept for immo)are the crank sensor and/or a faulty ecu,if I were you I would make sure you have a good crank sensor and it is properly fitted,before you look at anything else

[Millenaire]

Just want to know if you ruled out the possibility of someone putting petrol in instead of diesel. Not trying to be funny btw, it is the most common reason for those symptoms, i used to work at a fiat dealership and seen it regularly.
Sent from my HTC Hero using Tapatalk

[garymaule]

guys appreciate your input

i went out this afternoon and pressed down on the ecu connector on the drivers side wing then squirted in some cold start into the air intake and its back up and running, its starting first click of the key now

weird thing is i then ran fiatecuscan again and no errors show

but its running for now and i honestly appreciate you guys taking time out and repling back your are true gents

you know how it is when your cars goofed you get all sorts of stuff going through your head about what the problem could be and pound signs so near christmas i've just recently been laid off so had to go into the forums for quick answers and its honestly drove me to drink LoL

so going to join the AA now just incase the problem comes back (not the alcoholic one LoL) maybe after the new year i'll join the other one

thanks guys

[garymaule]

guys what i did do on the fiatforum was post a log file of fiatecuscan with the engine running and not running if thats any good to anyone let me know the non running one is above but the running one i can copy over if you wish if anyone wants to compare their values

let me know its no probs

thanks gents


Gary

[garymaule]

guys below is my log of the car values with the engine running if it help anyone in the future to compare theirs

READ PARAMETERS:
Fuel Temperature: 9.6 °C
Engine Speed: 1,103 rpm
Fuel Metering: 4.53 mg/i
Pre-injection fuel quantity: 0.0 mg/i
Total Fuel Quantity: 6.65 mg/i
Fuel Pressure: 300.3 bar
Fuel Pressure Signal: 1.295 V
Desired Fuel Pressure: 300.0 bar
Fuel Pressure Regulator: 16.17 %
Pre-injection Time: 0.263 ms
Injection Time: 0.499 ms
Injection Timing: -0.09 deg.
Pre-Injection Timing: 12.99 deg.
Boost Control/Sol.: 75.00 %
Boost Control/Sol.: Not active
Boost Pressure: 1,017 mBar
Desired Boost Pressure: 1,023 mBar
Actual EGR: 100.00 %
Capacitor 1 Voltage: 79.399 V
Pedal Pos. Track 1: 0.992 V
Pedal Pos. Track 2: 0.503 V
Vehicle speed: 0.00 km/h
Air Temperature: 6.9 °C
Air temperature signal: 3.485 V
Baro Pressure: 1,018 mBar
Baro Pressure signal: 4.022 V
Intake Air Quantity: 616.8 mg/i
Desired Intake Air Quantity: 310.1 mg/i
Air Flow Signal: 2.556 V
Glow plug heater module: Not active
CAN data line: OK
Gas Pedal Position: 2.35 %
Engine Temperature: 70.9 °C
Engine Temperature Signal: 1.760 V
Engine/ECU stop: Not active
Battery Voltage: 13.931 V
Glow Indicator Light: OFF
Malfunction Indicator Light: OFF
Engine Overheat light: OFF
Fuel Pump: Active
Brake Pedal Position: Released
Ignition Key Position: MAR
Clutch pedal: Pressed
EGR Command: Active
Immobilizer: key status: Programmed
Engine Start Permission: Allowed
Preheating C.U. diagnostics: OK
Oil Pressure Status: OK
Oil Pressure Indicator: OFF
Water in fuel: Not present

note ...........egr reading may not be correct value to your car as mine has a blanking plate on

[dhillon]

Your battery was too flat the first time round - it only read 11.75volts - it should at least read 12 volts with a load - try recharging the battery. Hope all is well with it. My JTD has done 129000 miles and it still doesn't use any oil between services - but it needs 2 new glow plugs! Have you or anyone ever changed them on an 8 VALVE 1.9JTD?

[jason156]

This sounded so like my problem, car mileage etc-even the time of year...

Except my car is fueling, you can smell the diesel coming out of the exhaust.
Is it possible that the belt (changed 18 months ago) has jumped a tooth...It happened to my punto??? Anyone heard of this on a jtd?

[mr_t909]

never heard of that

[Cuore_Sportivo_155]

I've heard of it on the 16v engines, as recently as last week even (jumped 2 teeth)... so I'd say it's possible

[jason156]

Well after looking into it, and a little stripdown, it was....
The EGR sticking open I cleaned it, got it (the valve) sliding and hey no more trouble, following some advice on Fiatforum I have now blanked off the egr and have my fingers crossed.

Not sure why the car wouldnt start because of it though, After fiddling about it did fire with a shot of easy start and ran for a few miles but I stalled it backing into my garage, and then when it did start again it smoked (white smoke) like mad and although it revved it had no power at all, thats when I looked into the EGR.

[lk2486]

Hi,
Ive just been reading about your problems. I am a mechanic at my dads garage and we have a stilo in at the moment with exactly the same symptoms. It has broken down several times on the customer lately, the Breakdown services (I wont name and shame) recommended changing egr valve.

The customer took it to a local fiat main dealer (he was away and too far to bring it to us). They also confirmed egr valve.

They replaced at a cost of about £200 inc labour. Since then it has broken down or failed to start on a few occasions, it was brought to us 2 days ago by another recovery service. They also suggested the famous egr valve, or air in fuel system.

I spent yesterday checking it over. Tested fuel pressure, checked for air leaks in fuel system etc. The recovery guy said he could only get it to start using easy start spray. I checked fuel was pumping to injectors when cranking over. Also I checked the resistance of each injector.

Next I got my set of Noid Lites out and plugged them into the injector harness and found no power when cranking over the engine. The engine was cranking over at a good speed still.
But I found that if I either charged the battery up for a while or put a jump pack on the car the Noid Lites would start to flash straight away.

Long story short - I have found if the battery voltage drops below about 12.2v it will crank over nicely but the Noid lites with not flash to show a supply from the injector harness, thus no fuel getting into the cylinder. However if the battey voltage is above this it will make them flash and the engine will start. It was starting with easy start and then once the alternator was putting out voltage it will have enough power to pulse the injectors. That is why the recovery guy could get it to start and stay running using easy start.

I relayed this info to the customer and he admits he sometimes leaves the stereo on or the interior light on but because it was cranking over fine he never assumed that it was due to a low battery.

Anyway I charged the battery over night last night and today it has started every time and not missed a beat.

I hope this is a help to anyone with similar issues, also if anyone has any info to give me I would greatly appreciate it. I will update with the progress of the Stilo we have just in case I find out that my theory is wrong. lol..

LK2486

[jason156]

Just thought I'd add my last not starting problem to this thread for future reference;

Now and again my jtd would just not start the display showed up "Loose connection" after a while it sometimes only a few minutes, or half an hour it would start and off it would go again, it even ran 1500 miles...when it just would not start so I stuck the FCR on it and it came up with a crank sensor fault, at a loss for a better plan I changed the crank sensor, and fingers crossed its been fine ever since.

If you change the crank sensor first you need to know where it is, 'cos you'll never see it, I did the job totally by feel. Look up at the back of the engine and you will see the wire and a bracket, the bracket needs to be unfastened, then split the wire and trace it to the engine over the fly wheel, undo the bolt there and out she pops, refitting is the reverse.
But its an awkward job you will need axle stands and a good jack and a light and hands the size of a two year old, I'm sure it would be much quicker on a ramp or over a pit- anyway hope this helps.

[jason156]

Originally Posted by dhillon

Your battery was too flat the first time round - it only read 11.75volts - it should at least read 12 volts with a load - try recharging the battery. Hope all is well with it. My JTD has done 129000 miles and it still doesn't use any oil between services - but it needs 2 new glow plugs! Have you or anyone ever changed them on an 8 VALVE 1.9JTD?

Yes I have, its awkward but not too bad. long reach sockets and bars and finger are the answer. Check wich ones are gone with a multi meter set to resistance touch one end to the head of the glow plug (leads disconnected and everything off) the other to a good earth and note the reading, you can test a new one to see the correct reading by touching the electrode and the other end to the body of the glow plug.