What kills the T-spark???

Hi all.


It goes without saying that the T-spark is rather well known for dying in the trade shall we say. Or is that totally wrong?

Ive wondered what it is that kills them.

My assumptions would be:
Cambelt snaps in the early years, i'd personally say 32k on them like the 16v coupe engines. Heads get repaired or replaced and off they go again.
The shock of the valve/piston impact damages the lower bearings and as such oil pressures dwindle over time and hey presto a knocking engine appears before long?

or:
They seem a little thirsty for oil, owners forgetting and off they go?? Knock Knock?


They seem a superb engine, are they just a little demanding of care and maintence to keep them going??? Ive seen a few with 140k on them, and all original. Still superb!

Are there any other causes of them dying?

I think you got your assumptions pretty much spot on. They generally last well as long as they are not run low on oil, and the cambelt needs doing at 36,000 mile or 3 year intervals, not at Alfa's 72,000 recommendation. Most belts seem to snap between 45-55k miles if left.

The Fiat 16V engine is a similar design, but the belt is slightly narrower in section, and the tensioners are different (They used fixed bearings not self adjusting tensioners) The recommended change interval for these on the fiat coupe forum is every 24k miles or 2 years.

Yes running low on oil will cause big end problems, as can not changing the bearing shells after a cambelt failure, though some people get away with it.

I personally would also change the oil more often than every 12,000 miles, possibly every 6000 miles.

two things, neglect and ignorance

Mines still going at 137K miles, uses no oil and pulls well. Changed belts and tensioners at 72K (before I knew better!) and then every 36K. Oil every 6K miles.

Originally Posted by mave

Mines still going at 137K miles, uses no oil and pulls well. Changed belts and tensioners at 72K (before I knew better!) and then every 36K. Oil every 6K miles.

If you do that they will last forever

What does the diesel do on a set of belts by comparison? Would the tensile strength of the petrol/ diesel engines be about the same?: Apologies Dumbkopf, that I am. Tensile strength,(breaking strain) of the belts,Diesel/Petrol? Diesel belts stronger??:

Originally Posted by purple145

two things, neglect and ignorance

just neglect in my case ... knock knock knock ...

OK as that post has gone on a flyer.: Belt strength, Diesel v Petrol, just out of interest?:

Originally Posted by zulu ferret

OK as that post has gone on a flyer.: Belt strength, Diesel v Petrol, just out of interest?:

I would think the belt strenth would be similar on both. However the Diesels low revving nature probably puts less strain on belts and tensioners. The belt will wear out twice as fast at twice the RPM if you see what I mean.

My thoughts follow that train of thought as well.: So, kept below for arguments sake, 4000 RPM, gentle acceleration and gear changing, anyone up for 100k, or five years for a belt change? Now there is a competition to offer as opposed to the Hypermiler ones currently running stateside.: The challenge begins,any takers?

Having said that ZF, I think the routing of the belt on the Diesels is not so arduous as on the TS engines. There is quite a sharp bend in the belt on the TS where it goes around the water pump, and then the tensioner.

Fiat Coupe's are meant to have the belt changed evry 60,000 miles and the belt is the same setup as on the 20V JTD. Obviously with the Fiat being a petrol it revs more.

My two pen'orth:
156 was the first Alfa that got any fleet sales , reps don't drive it like they own it , oil level needs to be WATCHED baby!! , oil warning light comes on approx 2miles after its too late...kersplatt!
Fiat didn't just keep the Alfa name , but the apalling (unjustified) reputation within the garage trade.....
Still , makes for some amazing s/h bargains...

The oil consumption is a puzzler. My own TS has 130k on the clock and it doesn't use a drop of oil (3k since the last change and the level is spot on max). I understand that others drink like a merchant banker on bonus day. This inconsistency must make it harder to convince drivers to check the oil regularly.

On the belt life, don't forget that heat and age both tend to make rubber compuonds more brittle. It's not just the number of times the belt has gone round.

IMO the belt reputation is something of an urban myth.
Yes , they must be changed at the correct intevals , maybe a little sooner , but the reason the 156 has the reputation has more to do with the "belt gone / belt replaced /top end damage cheaply fixed / bottom end not checked" school of vehicle maintenance..
There's more to it than just slapping another belt on , apparently.
And its the disparity in oil consumption that led owners not keeping a very careful eye on the levels "cos my mate's never uses any".
Thanks , Fiat !:

Originally Posted by purple145

two things, neglect and ignorance

bang on the money

As well as over optimistic belt change intervals at the start. Alfa is to blame for that though.

Originally Posted by symonh2000

As well as over optimistic belt change intervals at the start. Alfa is to blame for that though.

Now there's another good point !
Is there a correllation between belt change interval / manufacturer's warranty?
I smell conspiracy.....

I heard a rumour that there was a mix up in the translation between Km and miles, hence the rest of europe got a shorter change interval.

Its a shame it ook them so long to change the interval really, it must have been around 10 years after the 16V TS was launched.

What made me ponder this one was, going through my garage, having a bit of a purge you see: , I found a couple of the old Thema 16V Turbos belts, which I had kept, which look pretty much as new. I changed these at the required intervals, as Lancia recommended, and never suffered one snapping, over fourteen years of ownership, in spite of the power that old girl could pump out.:

I know about the tensioners giving up, but still feel the extra inertia stresses imposed by the variator must have some effect on belt life.

Originally Posted by zulu ferret

What made me ponder this one was, going through my garage, having a bit of a purge you see: , I found a couple of the old Thema 16V Turbos belts, which I had kept, which look pretty much as new. I changed these at the required intervals, as Lancia recommended, and never suffered one snapping, over fourteen years of ownership, in spite of the power that old girl could pump out.:

As a known Thema (7 years and up to 250 hp) user I never had a belt problem. Changed the old 8 valve once at about 80,000 whether it needed it or not. There was never any expectation of failure. All it cost was the 2 belts. Pity Alfa went for noise (revs) rather than the far better turbo engine. Sold the 8V at 160,000 miles.

That's a very valid point KG, as you a well aware, the Lannie' didn't have that component to add extra loading on the belt.