What kills the T-spark???

A lot of the TS belt failures are caused by the self adjusting belt tensioner. The Thema just had tensioner bearings.

The belt itself is a lot narrower in section on the thema though so you would think the loadings it could take would be less..

Originally Posted by symonh2000

I heard a rumour that there was a mix up in the translation between Km and miles, hence the rest of europe got a shorter change interval.

This is not true. My 2001 147's manual states that belts and tensioners are to be changed every 100,000 kms (~62,500 miles). The later manuals state 60,000 kms (~37,500 miles).

Originally Posted by alfasud.ti

This is not true. My 2001 147's manual states that belts and tensioners are to be changed every 100,000 kms (~62,500 miles). The later manuals state 60,000 kms (~37,500 miles).

I see, I actually read that in the Auto Italia review of the Alfa 156.

My 156 manual stated that the belt should be done at 72,000 miles.. IIRC

Originally Posted by symonh2000

My 156 manual stated that the belt should be done at 72,000 miles.. IIRC

Yes the 156 schedule was 72000miles (120000km) or 6-years.

I hadn't heard that the 147 schedule was any different
Interesting if the 147 manual did say 60000miles (100000km) or 5-years.


In 2002 it was "recommended" change every 36000miles (60000km) or 3-years.
Then in Nov the schedule was officially changed to that.

Thanks David, I was sure I had rememberd correctly. They also suggested a 36,000 mile inspection of the belt didn't they, which involved taking it off and refitting it.

Unbelieveable.

Originally Posted by symonh2000

Thanks David, I was sure I had rememberd correctly. They also suggested a 36,000 mile inspection of the belt didn't they, which involved taking it off and refitting it.

Yes in 2002 they introduced an "inspection" of the belt at 36000miles/3-years, saying it should be replaced if there is any doubt. Basically passing the buck on to the garages. As we all know, you can't inspect the belt without removing it and you never refit an old belt. So even though it didn't actually say it clearly it meant "replace it"!

Originally Posted by alfafamily

Lancias. The engines that pack up because of tensioner and pulley bearings must make a noise before they fail, so again its down to neglect if you don't listen and take notice.

Very true.Im my case i took it to a dealer and the mechanic said it was the variator.I asked them to inspect and he told me all was fine( as David C has already pointed out that you have to get in there to make sure, they didnt).A few months later it packed up.Noise came from the cambelt cover, problem was a worn out balance shaft tensioner.I have made sure that belts and all tensioners, were changed at the correct intervals.It still failed.However i think the dealers messed up and failed to replace the damaged tensioner prior to the belt snapping.

I have a very good mechanic replacing headgasket, valves, tensioners and bearings, variator (water pump already replaced on last belt change) and the belts.From an idependent garage.It would cost me more than the parts and labour just to have it towed to the nearest dealer.What should i look out for??

only engine failure I ever had was a Thema 2.0 16v non turbo, lack of oil getting to No4 bearing. Apparently caused by oil starvation commonly through heavy cornering

Still, the upside was it got me into Alfas

Originally Posted by zulu ferret

Well as you are all aware, the 147 started to emit ominous noises from the cambelt cover area, and in spite of good advice from an Alfa agent, I had to drive for roughly another eighty miles, keeping the load on the engine down. Lucky in the fact that I managed to get her sorted before anything gave out completely. I reckon it was a tensioner bearing or similar, giving up the ghost.:

What sort of noises?

Its not always about the belt snapping the teeth wear and fail causing massive slipping and then the valves and pistons meet.
I know cause it happened to me three years ago after Id purchased my 147 2.0 tspark.The car had 63k and full alfa service history i ran it for five days and 400 mile when the belt failed. the teeth had sheered off and the belt failed and on inspection the belt hadnt snapped but slippped off the pullies.
I now change the belt at 40k intervals.
The car has 104000 on the clock now and has never let me down i change the oil and service it at the correct intervals

My 1999 T Spark is on 73k miles now and has had one belt change at 50k (soon after the 36k interval was announced).

Oil consumption is under half a pint over 6k miles and I change it at 6k which is annual for me.

Mine has full main dealer history and everything works (even the aircon!!!) Mind you, its had all the usual defects (ECU, bushes and screen rust) fixed under warranty before I got hold of it.

The only car I've ever had a belt snap on, was a 1986 ford escort - my fault as I'd left the belt change for 10k miles over recommended.

Care for it an it will live, neglect your Alfa and it will die.

I have two GTV twinsparks both use no oil and are at 84k and 92k one had a belt tensioner break up with the usual trauma! I have refitted the head and the car is now fine, I have got new shells to fit, i Called EB spares and they said that they never change the shells, sometimes when a belt goes the con-rod bends, but they said no need to do the shells. So i am now in a quandry do i or don't i change the shells?

If you change the shells, its quite an easy job, and can be done by removing the sump from underneath.

If you decide to risk it, you may get away with it, but if you don't then you are likely to end up with a damaged crank, or even a con rod through the side of the block.

I am not sure what the odds are for and against you getting away with it, a lot of it depends on how fast the engine was running when the belt snapped.

if you have the shells already, just do it... just requires some elbow grease and some instant gasket....

What is your peace of mind worth to you?

Thanks guys you are right about the piece of mind i will do the bottom end shells, The car is very original, I am only the second owner. So hopefully the shells will all be standard, i dont want to get the sump off and then have to leave it off whill i get various sized shells. Any info or tips would be gratefully received. When i purchased my second GTV to use (while i was repairing the first) i bought it with no MOT so i trailered it home (thank god) first thing i did was to whip the cambelt cover off and i found the original black tensioner wheel still fitted and parts of it had come off but the belt had not jumped how lucky was that! With new belts tensioners and variator all fitted by myself the car is great>

I think the shells are graded. I think Alfa supply around 4 different sizes depending on the size of the individual crank, due to the manufacturing tolerance.

I am not 100% sure about whether they are marked, if not you will have to measure the journals and order the correct shells.

I am sure someone who knows better than me will be able to help further, or tell me I am talking crap.

plastigage might be a big help...

Aye! It is (was?) the practice to categorise the crank bearings into different size Categories depending on the manufacturing tolerances but modern computer-controlled machining may have put an end to need for that.

Normally they were marked "A", "B", "C" or "D" and you matched the shell with the same letter.

Other manufacturers used a colour code (white, yellow, green, blue).. but it's the same principle. The colours corresponded to size range required.

Ralf S.

colours with the 8v twinsparks, no idea about the 16v...

I called an alfa dealer who checked the reg and chassis number and confirmed that i need two different types of shell which all in cost £40 ish so not too bad, they are paid for and i am awaiting their delivery. I will keep you all posted when the sump is off.

i do my 145 1.6 TS every 60k and its sweet

Now thats what i call preventitive maintenance ! my shells from Mangoletsi arrived today so the job is on. Especially since i won a full set of genuine Alfa GTV manuals on ebay for £25.00

all the belt failures i have seen on the TS engines, and ive seen alot, have been caused by either the plastic tensioner wearing and letting the belt tension go slack or more commonly the teeth shearing off the belts, this could be put down to the extra stress on the belt caused by the double valve springs in the ts engine, if you have ever had a head on