Mito 1.3 JTDm or keep the 147 1.9JTDm

[paulandnuek]

Well here goes.....

I have a 59 plate 147 Collezione (remapped) and have really enjoyed it for nearly 3 years.

So I decided to take a look at the Guiletta, but the price!!!!! no thanks.

Then I sat in a Mito and was really surprised at how roomy it was.

Taking a look at the fuel economy on the 1.3 diesel I thought I would take it for a test drive.

For a 85bhp car I was pleasantly surprised. Not going to win any drag races but nowhere near as slow as I thought it would have been.

Then the old "how much will you give me for mine" came!!!!

Having spent £13,500 in September 2009 I was expecting a lot more than what was offered £6,500. My god!!!! £7,000 in less than 3 years!!!!

So now I am going to have to have to think long and hard on what car to get next.

Having had Fords for the last 5 cars, I am amazed at how much the car has devalued by....

I really thought that I would get much more than this for a part ex on a car valued at almost £16,000.

So although I like the look of the Mito and like the Distinctive spec, it may be back to the Ford garage for me

[JTD_Liam]

I think you would get at least £1000 more if you sold the 147 privately. If there's nothing wrong with the car then you could do that. In the past i've taken out a loan to buy a new car with & then cleared it as soon as my old car sold - always an option if you need the funds from the old car to use as a deposit but can't sell until the new one arrives.

£7000 loss over 3 years (circa £2300 a year) is only just above average for depreciation - the trouble is you bought the 147 just before it was replaced, so when the Giulietta started appearing on AutoTrader, the 147 values would take abit of a hammering. That said i don't think you've done too badly & i can't imagine a Ford holding its value a great deal better.

The MiTo's have held their value really well. Guilietta's seem to have dropped abit more but not catastrophic, so if buying new & not wanting to lose much i'd be inclined to go with a MiTo. However, you could always get a year old example & save the initial loss - particularly worth it on the Giulietta. I like the new Focus, but it ain't an Alfa in the style department, not by a long shot.

[multispoke]

Originally Posted by paulandnuek

Well here goes.....

I have a 59 plate 147 Collezione (remapped) and have really enjoyed it for nearly 3 years.

So I decided to take a look at the Guiletta, but the price!!!!! no thanks.

Then I sat in a Mito and was really surprised at how roomy it was.

Taking a look at the fuel economy on the 1.3 diesel I thought I would take it for a test drive.

For a 85bhp car I was pleasantly surprised. Not going to win any drag races but nowhere near as slow as I thought it would have been.

Then the old "how much will you give me for mine" came!!!!

Having spent £13,500 in September 2009 I was expecting a lot more than what was offered £6,500. My god!!!! £7,000 in less than 3 years!!!!

So now I am going to have to have to think long and hard on what car to get next.

Having had Fords for the last 5 cars, I am amazed at how much the car has devalued by....

I really thought that I would get much more than this for a part ex on a car valued at almost £16,000.

So although I like the look of the Mito and like the Distinctive spec, it may be back to the Ford garage for me

The missus has a 147 1.6 Petrol Lusso and when the cambelt broke a MiTo 1.6 MJ took its place. That was back in 2009.
What are you reasons for changing the 147 MJ 1.9 ?
What mileage are you doing a year ?
Do you intend to re-map the 'new' one ?
Do you need the 85bhp model to be London Congestion charge exempt or are you looking for better mpg & lower road tax ?

[paulandnuek]

Originally Posted by multispoke

The missus has a 147 1.6 Petrol Lusso and when the cambelt broke a MiTo 1.6 MJ took its place. That was back in 2009.
What are you reasons for changing the 147 MJ 1.9 ?
What mileage are you doing a year ?
Do you intend to re-map the 'new' one ?
Do you need the 85bhp model to be London Congestion charge exempt or are you looking for better mpg & lower road tax ?

I have done 30,500 miles since buying he car new in 2009 (not 3 years old yet).
But must of the miles are around the doors for work - stop start and short distances.
Best I`m getting is 44mpg and that is after a remap.
Focus I had before that was easily reaching 50mpg+
Don`t need the car for London as I live in the North East.
Wasn`t really looking for a change but didn`t have much to do over the bank hols so decided to have a look at some new cars lol
Once you start looking.....lol
Thought the Mito would be a nice replacement especially as no road tax, free servicing for 3 years..
Yes a bit underpowered, but would possibly consider a remap as the one I got for the 147 transformed the car..

Still think £7000 is a lot of a drop but I got £3000 off because of the Guilietta coming out.
The model I got had a sticker price of over £16,000 and I got it for £13,500 so if I had paid the sticker price

[pmj85]

Re: depreciation, I'm trying to get back into the 'Alfa game' after 12 months away. During that 12 months, I've had a 2L Mazda 6 TS which has only done 7k miles with me. I paid £10,000 for it.

... it's now only worth £5,000

So er - I feel your pain ;\

[paulandnuek]

Originally Posted by pmj85

Re: depreciation, I'm trying to get back into the 'Alfa game' after 12 months away. During that 12 months, I've had a 2L Mazda 6 TS which has only done 7k miles with me. I paid £10,000 for it.

... it's now only worth £5,000

So er - I feel your pain ;\

Ouch!!!!!!
Made me feel a bit better lol
The price I got was from Alexanders, so I emailed Benfield who cam up with the same offer without seeing the car. May have a tootle up to see them and see if I can get them to up the ante.....
Apparently there is a 2-3 month wait so no real rush!!!!

[dfv8]

Hi,

If I were you, I'd go for a petrol engined car rather than an oil-burner. Your stated use is not going to do the DPF any good at all.

I read an article recently, (cant remember where) that suggested that there's a general return to petrol engined vehicles due to the improved efficiencies of the latest small capacity engines, and that the ever increasing cost disparity between diesel and petrol is having an influence with the buying public.

[paulandnuek]

Originally Posted by dfv8

Hi,

If I were you, I'd go for a petrol engined car rather than an oil-burner. Your stated use is not going to do the DPF any good at all.

I read an article recently, (cant remember where) that suggested that there's a general return to petrol engined vehicles due to the improved efficiencies of the latest small capacity engines, and that the ever increasing cost disparity between diesel and petrol is having an influence with the buying public.

But when you compare the average mpg for the 1.3d to the petrol version there is quite a lot of difference. (80mpg ver 50mpg combined).
I know what you mean about the dpf though. I do get on the motorway or A roads a few times a week so shouldn`t be a problem there.

Called in at Benfield today to take another look at the Distinctive.
It does look nice but with a few extras it costs nearly £17000.
A plain Black one for just under £16000 (which to be honest did look good).

Finance deal offered was absolutely terrible though!!!!
I took a quick look on some comparison websites before I went it worked out £30-£35 dearer!!!

To be honest I got the feeling that the salesman wasn`t all that bothered about making a sale.

Didin`t even get offered a cuppa lol (Can`t beat Alexanders for that).

It`s a 3 month wait for a car to be made, so would be in time for the new september reg.

Anyway will have to have another think about it.

Maybe another trip to Alexanders before I head off to the Ford garages.....

[multispoke]

Originally Posted by paulandnuek

But when you compare the average mpg for the 1.3d to the petrol version there is quite a lot of difference. (80mpg ver 50mpg combined).
I know what you mean about the dpf though. I do get on the motorway or A roads a few times a week so shouldn`t be a problem there.

I doubt you would be getting a real world average of 80mpg on a 1.3 MJ. The OH gets around 49mpg and that's me at the wheel when she's too tired to drive. 155TB typically 34mpg. Would guess that a 135MA would get around 38mpg whilst a 1.3MJ would be 55mpg for comparison reasons.

Driving a petrol engined MiTo is much nicer that the MJ and at 10K p.a. with cheaper UK petrol prices if would be justifiable.

Performance wise the 1.6MJ is a hell of a lot torquer than a 1.3MJ but 'one up' you would probably get away with the small quieter engine. It might be the pick of the crop if you were looking to stretch the mpg but at 10K it's hard to justify on paper over the MA.

[cj romeo]

Stick with the 147 in my opinion, you won't save much in fuel, and it will depreciate less in cash terms than the mito as its big chunk is gone. Fifty percent of what you paid after 3 years is actually pretty good!

Unless the 147 is terminally raptly in the suspension department that it is.

We went from a 147 to a MiTo but had kept it for 5 years and it was a 2.0 TS which cost a bomb to run and tax. The 147 is a better trimmed car with less wind noise and a bigger boot, but the suspension quickly wears out on them. For comparison, ours was worth about thirty percent of invoice at 5 years old, but like you, we didnt pay anything like list for it when new.

Big discounts aren't available on MiTo's, believe me, we walked out of several dealers before David Whitton at Piccadilly done us a deal we were happy with (again!) he is well worth a try, no nonsense and not far from you down the A1.... It is far for me!

[giampa]

I thin 147 is better than MiTo

[paulandnuek]

Originally Posted by cj romeo

Stick with the 147 in my opinion, you won't save much in fuel, and it will depreciate less in cash terms than the mito as its big chunk is gone. Fifty percent of what you paid after 3 years is actually pretty good!

Unless the 147 is terminally raptly in the suspension department that it is.

We went from a 147 to a MiTo but had kept it for 5 years and it was a 2.0 TS which cost a bomb to run and tax. The 147 is a better trimmed car with less wind noise and a bigger boot, but the suspension quickly wears out on them. For comparison, ours was worth about thirty percent of invoice at 5 years old, but like you, we didnt pay anything like list for it when new.

Big discounts aren't available on MiTo's, believe me, we walked out of several dealers before David Whitton at Piccadilly done us a deal we were happy with (again!) he is well worth a try, no nonsense and not far from you down the A1.... It is far for me!

Doesn`t seem to be any deals on Mito`s at all.
No budge on the list price or even extras.
Think I may just hang onto the 147 for a bit longer.
Its running fine and a lot better after the remap.
30% after 5 years is not bad!!
If I get the next service, MOT and car tax in September then its defo a keeper

[multispoke]

Originally Posted by paulandnuek

Doesn`t seem to be any deals on Mito`s at all.
No budge on the list price or even extras.
Think I may just hang onto the 147 for a bit longer.
Its running fine and a lot better after the remap.
30% after 5 years is not bad!!
If I get the next service, MOT and car tax in September then its defo a keeper

One thing that I have learned over the years is that if a car is running well I tend to either sell it before it really starts to lose money or keep it until it ends up in the scrappie.
The OH after selling her 147 was really pleased with the MiTo and it's a much nicer place to be in. The fact the the MiTos are not been discounted is good and it helps residuals. The 155TB that I bought last Jan will still sell for the same money today that I paid for since there does not appear to be that much 'supply' out there. That said time will tell if the mechanicals of the MiTos are as tough as the genune Alfa bits.

Given that you have remapped your 147 don't assume that if you end up with a 1.3 MJ 85bhp you can do the same - it's worth checking the torque limits specified for the gearbox. If I was looking for more 'power' I would opt for the bigger 1.6 MJ which has the 'blend' of performance & economy. From a back to back country 'blast' this Friday & Saturday in the MJ and then the petrol (155TB) you really can't beat the pleasure of a petrol engine. Average mpg was 50mpg (MJ) compared with 42mpg (155TB).

[paulandnuek]

After doing a lot of internet browsing today its seems like the 1.4 135bhp is the best of the bunch. Not bad fuel economy too.....

[cj romeo]

Originally Posted by paulandnuek

After doing a lot of internet browsing today its seems like the 1.4 135bhp is the best of the bunch. Not bad fuel economy too.....

Our 135 gets 38 mpg average where the 147 got 29.....performance is better This is with my wife driving it, you will probably do better!

[paulandnuek]

Hmmm been looking on the Alfa website and after a chat with a friend who has a pcp with peugeot I must say I am tempted!!!!
He got a car over 3 years and got a call after 2 offering a new car with better spec for the same monthly payments. Needless to say he snapped there hands off.
Just wonder if Alfa would do this......

On another note. I did a check insurance wise with the meerkat and the Petrol is cheaper to insure even though it is a higher insurance group...

Decisions decisions!!!!

[multispoke]

Originally Posted by paulandnuek

Hmmm been looking on the Alfa website and after a chat with a friend who has a pcp with peugeot I must say I am tempted!!!!
He got a car over 3 years and got a call after 2 offering a new car with better spec for the same monthly payments. Needless to say he snapped there hands off.
Just wonder if Alfa would do this......

On another note. I did a check insurance wise with the meerkat and the Petrol is cheaper to insure even though it is a higher insurance group...

Decisions decisions!!!!

I'll done a little U-turn on the Petrol for the Diesel after looking at prices. Generally a diesel car is dearer to buy than a petrol equivalent so to re-coup the additional cost involves a lot of miles. But looking at the prices of the MiTos on the Alfa website the MJ 1.3 is keenly priced when you compare it with a 500 MJ 1.3 and the other MiTo petrol variants. The MJ II that you get in the MiTo gets under the 100grs/km which means that it's cheaper on levies since it's in Band A unlke the same variant in Fiats. The MJ 1.6 IMHO is looking very pricey.
Alfa Romeo MiTo hatchback prices & specifications | CarBuyer
So at £14,735 for the Sprint model IMHO it's value for money. On this variant you have the option of the 16 inch Lusso 'no cost' wheels which are an excellent choice and suit the ride of the MiTo with the standard suspension.
Autocar gave a tough review on the MJ II so the improvements on the suspension setup on the MA135 and in particular on the QV is spend where you can't see it. The 'real world' economy returned on this test was 53mpg but it has the potential for better mpg and would be more easily got than what one could get from a Twin Air.
Alfa Romeo Mito 1.3 JTDm-2 Review | Autocar
Checked out the gearbox on the MJ II and it would appear to be the C514R gearbox which is rated for 190Nm (this is a Re-enforced version of the C514 which is rated at 150Nm). Torque outputs on the MiTo 1.3 MJ II is 200Nm so there technically there's no scope to increase the power/torque output unless you exercise some mechanical sympathy.
I would suggest a test drive on one and see if you like it - you might be pleasantly surprised. IMHO - it would be a much better drive than a Junior or a NA MA. Plus it should be a much nicer and more unique car than a Peugeot.

[paulandnuek]

Going to test drive the 135bhp on Saturday.
Was liking the fuel economy on the 1.3 JTDm but not sure if I could live with an 85bhp car.
Even after a remap it would still be poor.
So going to give the petrol version a try.
Never had one for 22 years so will have to see.
1.6 JTDm is a bit pricey so think its going to be the 135 version.

[multispoke]

Originally Posted by paulandnuek

Going to test drive the 135bhp on Saturday.
Was liking the fuel economy on the 1.3 JTDm but not sure if I could live with an 85bhp car.
Even after a remap it would still be poor.
So going to give the petrol version a try.
Never had one for 22 years so will have to see.
1.6 JTDm is a bit pricey so think its going to be the 135 version.

This 'guy' changed from a 1.6MJ to a 1.3MJ 85bhp and didn't find much difference in performance. He felt that the lighter front and the £35 road tax easily compensated. What caught my eye was the colour and that I felt he wasted the 17inch Abarth esseese wheels on the car. and had them dipped in black paint. Still it probably looked OK in the flesh. Remember its torque and not bhp on the diesels. IIRC the economy figures for the 1.3 were done on 15s.

Good luck on the test drive on 135MA.

P.S. in the picture in the mag the colour looks more purple but when it scanned it now looks more blue.

[paulandnuek]

Mmmmm didn`t know about the 15 wheels, Would that be the same for the 1.4 petrol versions as well.
Must agree,the black wheels....Nooooooo!!!!

[Mattgusto]

Originally Posted by dfv8

Hi,

If I were you, I'd go for a petrol engined car rather than an oil-burner. Your stated use is not going to do the DPF any good at all.

I read an article recently, (cant remember where) that suggested that there's a general return to petrol engined vehicles due to the improved efficiencies of the latest small capacity engines, and that the ever increasing cost disparity between diesel and petrol is having an influence with the buying public.

Worth baring in mind that article is probably based on the petrol and diesel official
Mpg. In the case of the Fiat group cars, the diesels are alot close to their official mpg figures in my experience!

Of course the MA mitos would be more fun and drivable, but the mordern diesel
is worth consideration!!

[multispoke]

Originally Posted by paulandnuek

Mmmmm didn`t know about the 15 wheels, Would that be the same for the 1.4 petrol versions as well.
Must agree,the black wheels....Nooooooo!!!!

MJ is supplied with 16 inch - but it was on a test article it mentioned 15 inch to help the 1.3 MJ 'break' the 100grs/km (I could be wrong on this - can't find the article). The MiTo is the only one (that I can think off) that has this engine that's exempt.

Standard wheel sizes listed here for the MiTos - not too sure how accurate it is...
Alfa Romeo MITO Wheel Size | Car leasing made simple™

Originally Posted by Mattgusto

Worth baring in mind that article is probably based on the petrol and diesel official
Mpg. In the case of the Fiat group cars, the diesels are alot close to their official mpg figures in my experience!

Of course the MA mitos would be more fun and drivable, but the mordern diesel
is worth consideration!!

Article came from Auto Italia Issue 193 March 2012 and the magazine contains a full review (Group Test) of all the MiTos - 1.4 16V Veloce, 155TB Veloce, 1.3MJ Lusso, 1.6MJ Veloce & Cloverleaf by Guy Baker. Mentions the TA but it's not reviewed. Probably a back issue worth getting which can be got on-line or ringing up
Back Issues | Auto-Italia Magazine
Issue no. 193

[Mattgusto]

Originally Posted by multispoke

MJ is supplied with 16 inch - but it was on a test article it mentioned 15 inch to help the 1.3 MJ 'break' the 100grs/km (I could be wrong on this - can't find the article). The MiTo is the only one (that I can think off) that has this engine that's exempt.

Standard wheel sizes listed here for the MiTos - not too sure how accurate it is...
Alfa Romeo MITO Wheel Size | Car leasing made simple™



Article came from Auto Italia Issue 193 March 2012 and the magazine contains a full review (Group Test) of all the MiTos - 1.4 16V Veloce, 155TB Veloce, 1.3MJ Lusso, 1.6MJ Veloce & Cloverleaf by Guy Baker. Mentions the TA but it's not reviewed. Probably a back issue worth getting which can be got on-line or ringing up
Back Issues | Auto-Italia Magazine
Issue no. 193

I was referring to a previous poster earlier in the thread, who 'thought he read somewhere....'

I was guessing the nature of what he was reading may have been done purely on paper and not through real life mpg experiences!

I do have that issue of auto Italia....some interesting reading

(can't remember if that would have been the article the previous poster was referring to or not, but from memory I think it was broadly positive on the diesel models)

[multispoke]

Originally Posted by Mattgusto

I do have that issue of auto Italia....some interesting reading

Did the Tornado Blue look purple in your copy of Auto Italia ?

[Mattgusto]

Originally Posted by multispoke

Did the Tornado Blue look purple in your copy of Auto Italia ?

Yes it was very purple in the photo. I think it was caused by the type of in-door lighting used and camera/photo editing trickery.