Upgrade cost from a 155TB to a QV

[multispoke]

Just a recent member on here having only purchased a 2009 155TB 19K miles last January.
So far have mixed impressions of the MiTo. Now liking the colour - it's a cream - it has grown on me - different to the whites out there - and it does polish up which has surprised me.
Interior is fabric - much nicer to get into than the OH's leather seats (she has a MiTo MJ 1.6)
Have toyed with the idea of making the Lusso rear end a bit more sporty with a black inside bumper and possibly a spoiler. But the 16s would look a bit small in trying to jazz it up.
From a previous thread I've struggled with the 16s on mixed tyres (Hankooks & Michelins) - nothing to 'write home about'. On the whole I've been disappointed with the chicane test on the MiTo but love the power and burble from the engine. Gearbox is a bit agriculture but it works.
Tom Tom Live 2 doesn't work in either of the '09 MiTos for full functionality. Expect that it will work in a 'newer' one.
Checking a 'car web site' came across a QV in cream with the leather and of course it has the 'new' Multi-air 168bhp engine from the same dealership where I bought the 155TB for a 'bargain' €10K. 2010 QV with 11K miles advertised at €15K.
Is it worth going up to a 2010 with the extra power, Garrett turbo, Adaptive suspension, 'better' gearbox, 17 inch Veloce shod with Pilots, Leather, 5 seats i.e. the extra one in the back (nice to have - like the split) for one and half MiTos 155TBs ?
Road tax will be a bit more friendly with the reduced emissions dropping from €330 p.a. to €225 p.a. on the current rates. Don't expect to get any more mpg but the S/S might help a little.

[David P]

Originally Posted by multispoke

'better' gearbox

Or perhaps not as unfortunately more than a few QV ( & Giulietta ) owners have discovered http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...tle-tight.html (New QV ...1st gear a little tight ...)

[pickle3234]

I had an 09 plate 155tb. Bought it thinking I would get a mito GTA when it came out however that has never surfaced. Traded the 155tb last year for a a new QV got it in the white as well.

Love the QV even more and the adaptive suspension makes a big difference. I had 17s on the 155tb and it was a pretty harsh ride. The QV has 18s and the ride is much better. I actually get better mpg from my QV as well.

My dealer gave me a good deal due to going back to them. Hopefully yours will do the same.

[multispoke]

Originally Posted by David P

Or perhaps not as unfortunately more than a few QV ( & Giulietta ) owners have discovered http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...tle-tight.html (New QV ...1st gear a little tight ...)

Thanks David for that link.
Interesting read. Problem with the 155TB is having to 'ease' into 2nd gear. Takes a while for the gearbox to warm up before you can 'rush it'.

Originally Posted by pickle3234

I had an 09 plate 155tb. Bought it thinking I would get a mito GTA when it came out however that has never surfaced. Traded the 155tb last year for a a new QV got it in the white as well.

Love the QV even more and the adaptive suspension makes a big difference. I had 17s on the 155tb and it was a pretty harsh ride. The QV has 18s and the ride is much better. I actually get better mpg from my QV as well.

My dealer gave me a good deal due to going back to them. Hopefully yours will do the same.

Thank you for the feedback on the QV.
Ride on the 155TB with the 16s is quite good and after an older '08 500 1.4 Sport it's in a different league. Handling is not up to scratch on the 55 profiles and not enough footprint to handle dynamic mode with the traction working overtime. Plan for the 155TB was a 'stop gap' until a A500 came along that had not been 'tracked' or possibly import a basic new one from the UK with the MA engine. Currently there are no plans from Abarth to release the Multi-air engine in 2012.
The OHs MJ is a bit crashy on the 17s but has better turn in despite it being nose heavy. Might have to arrange a test drive on the QV to see if it's worth the money but I wouldn't be expecting miracles. Have found the extra carrying capacity useful on the MiTo over the 500 despite the poor rear opening for getting things in.
Doubt I would get any special deal since I had to buy the adverised price on the 155TB.

[wo0dy]

Why dont you just get an A500 you must be able to pick something in good condition for your budget even if it's the tjet engine.

[multispoke]

Originally Posted by wo0dy

Why dont you just get an A500 you must be able to pick something in good condition for your budget even if it's the tjet engine.

Here's a link to the only A500 for sale at the moment...
Fiat Abarth 500 ABARTH Petrol 2011 Hatchback for sale in Stillorgan €18,995
and it's priced at €19K.

When there was 3 A500 for sale last January before I bought the 155TB they were upwards of €14K for a '09. One of them had a gearbox whine. I have travelled to N.I. and looked at 2 but landed cost was between €15-€16K for a non essessed model.

At the moment the Euro to Sterling rate is around 80c to the £ so compared to more favourable rates last July it makes a difference of around a £1K.

I went over today to look at the QV before COB and it looks clean and when you rev the engine it starts to pop and backfire more so than the 155TB. Hope to get a spin tomorrow in it weather permitting (hail stones at the moment & low temperatures).

QV has darked veloce alloys, Climate control, 2 back seats (incorrectly advertised), No 68R opton port (so Tom Tom Live2 will not work ) but has the standard B&Me in Veloce spec.
Alfa Romeo Mito 1.4 MULTIAIR CLOVERLEAF Petrol 2010 Hatchback for sale in Dublin 15 €14,995

Only came across this car looking for an Irish based MiTo that had a B&Me with the 68R option port so that I could test a Tom Tom Live 2 in.

I might be just getting used to the MiTo. I've yet to figure out how much extra I'm prepared to pay for the Multi-air technology.

Appreciate any inputs or PMs as to what 'upgrade cost' would be deemed resonable.

[multispoke]

Originally Posted by pickle3234

My dealer gave me a good deal due to going back to them. Hopefully yours will do the same.

Got a test drive in the QV.
Upgrade cost is €6K so that will be 1.6 155TB.

Managed to get a solo drive.
Very impressive but not enough to make me want it.
22.8mpg after resetting Trip counter. Expect that it would do a lot better than the 155TB on 'normal' runs.
Mix of roads with speed bumps and some motorway.
Quicker than the 155TB but not by much. Power comes on earlier. Seems to rev a bit more. Felt the turbo could take more boost in comparison to the 155TB which I reckon is maxed out.
Didn't get on to well with the 6 speed. Definitely a shorter shift. Needed to concentrate to get it into gear. Might take getting used to. Seemed a bit 'sticky'.
Better over the speed bumps - no thump. Better damped. You could nearly feel the stage settings when you flick from Dynamic to Normal on the roundabouts.
Brakes didn't feel as good as the 155B. Car felt a bit skittish scrubbing the speed off. But that might be because I was going faster.
17s felt good but with the better suspension it could take the 18s.
No wheelspin on the Michelins compared with the 16s on Hankooks on the 155TB (it was dry).
Stop / Start not available as expected. Never really expected it to work.
Nicer sound at idle and slightly more cabin noise than in the 155TB.
Didn't get to hear any pops or backfires. Might be to do with 95 octane availability.
Steering has better feedback but it is still not as alive as the A500.
Interior is all black including the roof lining and the steering wheel.
Impressive car but not worth the upgrade cost.
Ex-Fiat car.
155TB still value for money.
QV is in a unique position of offering a 40mpg performance hot hatch with low road tax.

[wo0dy]

Your comparison echo's what most seem to say. Hold out and get a A500 when you can if that's what you want. The little gains between the QV and 155TB is minmal, mine was spec'd with most extras as new so is better equipped than a QV and the performance gain is so small. Thing that intrests me the guiletta QV as its cheaper to insurance than mine but considerably faster those the cost to change is alot more..

[vorsprung]

@multispoke

seems a pretty fair review there

22.8 mpg seems a bit low though - the first 2 hours i had in my QV included 1 hour sat in traffic before a steep climb up into the peaks and still managed 32mpg.

power delivery is very smooth - i cannot remember the 155 i drove (was my first mito test drive nearly 3 years back) - but should imagine it is closer to the 120 in drive style - ie torquey at the right rev point, whereas the QV doesn't feel so obviously turbo-charged and delivers the power throughout the range.

out of interest was it a cloverleaf or a 2011 QV? i think the minor style changes and extra free equipment on the latter make it much more worthwhile, although not sure i would have done it if i'd started at the 155 - as you say nice, but not quite nice enough. perhaps with more power (say 185 like the GPA SS) it would make more of a difference - after all it has the brakes and suspension to deal with much more.

[multispoke]

Originally Posted by wo0dy

Your comparison echo's what most seem to say. Hold out and get a A500 when you can if that's what you want. The little gains between the QV and 155TB is minmal, mine was spec'd with most extras as new so is better equipped than a QV and the performance gain is so small. Thing that intrests me the guiletta QV as its cheaper to insurance than mine but considerably faster those the cost to change is alot more..

It would seem that quite a number are trading their MiTos for Guilettas. Garage I was at was full of them but no MiTos.
Plan was to 'hold off' until the end of the year / next year for an A500 but I'm getting used to the MiTo now. I was curious on the Cloverleaf but if the price was right I might have gone for it.

Originally Posted by vorsprung

@multispoke

seems a pretty fair review there

22.8 mpg seems a bit low though - the first 2 hours i had in my QV included 1 hour sat in traffic before a steep climb up into the peaks and still managed 32mpg.

power delivery is very smooth - i cannot remember the 155 i drove (was my first mito test drive nearly 3 years back) - but should imagine it is closer to the 120 in drive style - ie torquey at the right rev point, whereas the QV doesn't feel so obviously turbo-charged and delivers the power throughout the range.

out of interest was it a cloverleaf or a 2011 QV? i think the minor style changes and extra free equipment on the latter make it much more worthwhile, although not sure i would have done it if i'd started at the 155 - as you say nice, but not quite nice enough. perhaps with more power (say 185 like the GPA SS) it would make more of a difference - after all it has the brakes and suspension to deal with much more.

I got more or less the same test figure of 22 mpg on the 155TB over the same 30 minute run. Noticed the instant readout reading 3-4mpg better than the 155TB when I was being a bit more sensible. Given that I'm averaging around 34mpg at the moment I would expect about 37mpg in the QV. Car is the one in the link about 4 posts back. It was registered April 2010. A concern I had was that it was an ex-Fiat car. Last ex-Fiat car I 'drove' last Christmas was an 2010 A500 esseesse with 14K and the oil had never been changed but it had been topped up. There was scum on the inside cap. I did own a ex-Fiat 1.4 '09 and it was perfect but it only had 4K on the clock.

When the engine was started - it was a bit tappety for about 20 seconds. In 2nd gear there was an 'overboost' giving more instant power than on the 155TB. As it settled it seemed more of less the same but still quicker. Urge came on earlier. The T-jet might be a bit more raw but not as 'high tech' as the QV.

Thinking back on the 'Unavailable Stop / Stop' the Climate control was switched on - which might explain why it didn't trigger.

Overall I felt that the Alfa got the QV right - ride is definitely better and if you press on it still remains in control 'to a point'. It is noticeably quicker. Disappointed in the gearbox but it is supposedly better than the 155TB - it's definitely quieter.

QV is a bit of a wolf in sheep's clothing but the Veloce spec gives the game away a little. I might be looking for something more vocal but I wouldn't say no to a car of this calibre.

Re the better suspension and brakes on the APE the brakes are supposedly the same with Brembos and 305s. Suspension wise it has the stiffer 'red' esseese springs but unless you upgrade to the Koni FSDs you're 'stuck' with the Fiat shocks. FSDs are not lasting on the A500 (not enough suspension travel) - don't know about the APE/AGP.

If I did go for the QV I would definitely consider upgraded performance pads but I would be reluctant to mess with the adaptive suspension or increase the boost. According to the USA A500 spec the Garret turbo is running 18psi at 160bhp in the MA but it can supposedly run up to 1.5bar (22psi) without any problems. Being lead to believe that the new gearbox should take the torque increase better than the old one.

EDIT: I drove a Cloverleaf. Had not realised that it was different to a QV. So references to the QV refer to the Cloverleaf.

[towney]

I always liked the A500 however its just too small for me. I took one for a test drive and my feet kept getting stuck in the foot well.

The AGP SS with 185 bhp is the same engine as the QV however it has had a remap, air filter and a new exhaust if i remember correctly.

Similar to what i have done and i have managed 194bhp, also the AgP will not hold its value as well as a mito.

After driving both the QV and a 155, i could see where the extra money goes. I really missed mine after having a 155 for 2 days. The short shift gear box and the suspension is whats most noticeable.

MPG is very Jekyll and Hyde. If you do alot of town driving in D, dont expect more then 30mpg. However i recently drove 440 miles from Southampton to Belfast and averaged 49mpg. admittedly that was driving at around 60-65 and being fairly careful, but its possible. I only used 7/8ths of a tank.

However if you have no intentions of driving that fast, modifying at all, the QV may be a little hard to justify the extra cost.

[multispoke]

Originally Posted by towney

The AGP SS with 185 bhp is the same engine as the QV however it has had a remap, air filter and a new exhaust if i remember correctly.

The AGP uses the T-jet engine in the same state of tune as the 155TB. Given that the power output is the same it would appear that it is using the same IHI VL36 turbo.
Upgrade cost from the AGP to AGP SS is £4,500 and involves changing the IHI turbo to a Garrett one - the same one that is in your QV.
Did not realise the extent of the 'other changes'.
The QV / Cloverleaf is using the Multi-air engine which is the same one in the Abarth Punto Evo.

Originally Posted by vorsprung

...perhaps with more power (say 185 like the GPA SS) it would make more of a difference - after all it has the brakes and suspension to deal with much more.

Checking the specs on the AGPSS & the APE SS I had forgotten about the drilled discs and the better pads. The Koni FSDs are standard with the SS kit.

Abarth Grande Punto - Abarthisti
Std. 155bhp
£4.5K -> 180bhp
Abarth Punto Evo - Abarthisti
Std. 165bhp
SS -> ?

[multispoke]

Looking to bump a thread on the 68R option port.
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/repub...ml#post4720701 (Any MiTos with the 68R option port)

On the Cloverleaf that I tested it had no option port. When I checked the Alfa configurator noticed that this option has to be specified and it costs another £75. This was a 'free' option on the 500.

Are there any members 'out there' who have this Tom Tom port on their dash. I'm looking to upgrade the B&Me module in the MiTo and I have only one 'crack at the whip'.

I was hoping if someone with the Tom Tom port has a Tom Tom Live 2 working with full functionality i.e. the sat nav can talk with the B&Me - this allows for Tom Tom to do the media stuff along with other things.

Alfa CS wanted to order the B&Me module off a 'working' MiTo and it would be preferable if it was an earlier model. Reports on the B&Me section said that the 'body' ECU may have to be changed as well.