Official UK prices and specifications

Originally Posted by fredzedex

do you know what? i dont want one.dont like it and its not really that competitvely priced either.

(prepared for a slating)!!

This review isn't a slating BusinessCar - Alfa Romeo Mito: Test drive - although not sure it's a company car...

My understanding is that MiTo is not a dressed up Punto. Alfa insists that only the core structure is shared; everything else is either unique to MiTo or heavily re-engineered to match the Alfa DNA.

MiTo isn't a Polo -> Ibiza -> Fabia make over.

g

Originally Posted by nomad

.... think of the pedestrians.... for god's sake man think of the pedestrians

This has to be the best, most funniest quote ever on AO. Nomad, I salute you

Originally Posted by Andyboy

Oh, a b*llocks to pedstrians. Walk in front of a moving car, you get injured!

Too right.

Pavements for pedestrians
Roads for cars

Mix the two up and you're heading for trouble.

I've been forced to be a pedestrian a few times. I didn't like it much but managed not to get run over. I was cunning enough to look where I was going and stayed on the pavement. When crossing a road I looked first to check if there were any vehicles coming that may have run me down had I not done so.

We should not have ugly cars foisted on us in order to compensate for thickies who can not understand the simplest of tasks.

Originally Posted by Andyboy

.....why not just buy a Grande Punto? I know they've had some fairly major issues (porous blocks and bodyshell water leaks mainly) but chances are they've been sorted now and they're very good value for money.

Eh? I've never heard of these issues. The wife has a Grande Punto Sporting and has suffered the 'normal' problems, i.e. faulty door lock, noisy rear brakes, sticking EGR valve and needing anti-roll bar drop links replaced. The car feels pretty solid and hasn't had any water leaks or engine gremlins (other than EGR valve).

The common faults are found here:

RECALLS & KNOWN FAULT/ISSUES. - The FIAT Forum

The only water ingress problem seems to be in the tailgate.

Originally Posted by tony44

The ride in the 1 series is very poor, but I thought the rest of the car felt solid and drove very well.

The biggest thing for me when I had any problems with my 1 series the BMW dealer sorted it 1st time, none of this 4 attempts to fix a fu*king rocking chair in a Brera.

Alfa have a lot of work on their plate if they are going to entice Joe public into the brand, you only have to look on this forum to see how badly some owners have been treated.

The problem with the 1 Series is that it's been 'styled' (for want of a better word) with no regard to how practical it might be. The diesels are very good and the usual BMW handling/grip/steeing are there but I just beomoan the useless boot and rear legroom whilst the visibility is poor. I think the previous Compact was a better car.

I'm of the opinion that Alfa won't make it - not in any volume. Every week there is a 'radical new Alfa boss' who is going to wave a magic wand and banish the build quality problems and the **** dealers. But it never happens and like the Boy that cried wolf, the public have heard it all before. Alfa have had a bad reputation for 30 years don't forget.

Originally Posted by Big Jon

Eh? I've never heard of these issues. The wife has a Grande Punto Sporting and has suffered the 'normal' problems, i.e. faulty door lock, noisy rear brakes, sticking EGR valve and needing anti-roll bar drop links replaced. The car feels pretty solid and hasn't had any water leaks or engine gremlins (other than EGR valve).

The common faults are found here:

RECALLS & KNOWN FAULT/ISSUES. - The FIAT Forum

The only water ingress problem seems to be in the tailgate.

Info came from a mechanic of 8 years at the Fiat dealer near me. He did say the problems were slowly eradicated but he also said the most reliable Fiat is the Panda....made in Poland!

Originally Posted by Scudetto

My understanding is that MiTo is not a dressed up Punto. Alfa insists that only the core structure is shared; everything else is either unique to MiTo or heavily re-engineered to match the Alfa DNA.

MiTo isn't a Polo -> Ibiza -> Fabia make over.

g

What do you call a 'core structure'? I'll tell you - it means floorpan and front bulkhead. It uses all of these from the Punto plus the suspension and engine/gearbox. Oh, and it's made in Turin by Fiat who share the same basic structure with the next Vauxhall Corsa FFS, meaning the final insult has been made. Alfa Romeo my arse.

Take a Ford Mondeo, get Alfa to play with the handling a bit, tweak the engine and restyle it. Does that result in an Alfa? No, it's a tweaked Mondeo, no more no less.

I'm a good old fashioned Alfa snob. If it's not built in an Alfa factory and powered by an Alfa engine, it's not an Alfa, full stop. Was the MG Metro a real MG? Or just a badge and a bit of flash trim on a mass produced hatchback?

Originally Posted by Andyboy

What do you call a 'core structure'? I'll tell you - it means floorpan and front bulkhead. It uses all of these from the Punto plus the suspension and engine/gearbox. Oh, and it's made in Turin by Fiat who share the same basic structure with the next Vauxhall Corsa FFS, meaning the final insult has been made. Alfa Romeo my arse.

Take a Ford Mondeo, get Alfa to play with the handling a bit, tweak the engine and restyle it. Does that result in an Alfa? No, it's a tweaked Mondeo, no more no less.

I'm a good old fashioned Alfa snob. If it's not built in an Alfa factory and powered by an Alfa engine, it's not an Alfa, full stop. Was the MG Metro a real MG? Or just a badge and a bit of flash trim on a mass produced hatchback?

Andyboy, please, enough negativity! I disagree with most of what you say. I was brought up on Suds, Sprints and Giuliettas. Now in my family there is a GTV6, a 146, a 156, 2 recent GTVs, a recent Spider, a 159, 147s. Even an 8C... They are all real Alfas in my opinion.

Alfa was going to go to Ford 20 years ago. At the last minute the Italian government intervened and it went to Fiat. So it would currently be being sold to the Indians or Chinese if it had gone to Ford. If it hadn't gone to Ford or Fiat there would be no Alfa Romeo now. There would have been no SZ, no 164, no DTM winning(Mercedes beating) 155s, no 156, no 147, no 166, no 159. They are all real Alfas whether you like it or not. My first car was a Sud QV. I feel the same spirit in the 147(the only car in its class with double wishbone front suspension...). The Mito is a warmed over Punto??? Well ALain Prost already said he much prefers the Abarth Punto to the Mini so it can't be such a bad starting point.... Anyway, the Delta Integrale was a "warmed over" Fiat Strada!! Like the GTV was a "warmed over" Fiat Tipo!!!

I know all of the guys in Centro Stille in Milan. They are all proud Alfisti!! The GM connection is now thank God a thing of the past and Fiat is full of money.. things are looking very good(new all-Alfa V6 petrol and diesels on the way). Alfa, like Ferrari, like Maserati is part of Fiat. This is a good thing. Both BMW and VW have been trying to buy Alfa for years. I'd never buy a German-owned Alfa. That's be the end for me.

Originally Posted by Andyboy

I'm a good old fashioned Alfa snob.

Good for you.

g

Lancia once made proper 'engineers cars' like the Fulvia. Step 1 was to build the Beta turd with an unabashed Fiat engine, disasters like the Monte Carlo and junk like the Prisma. About the only shining light was the Integrale. Now Lancia make nothing more than wheeled Gucci handbags - Lancia's true fans will not accept ANYTHING after the Fulvia and rightly so. The fact remains that the MiTo is going to be an Alfa-ised Punto/Corsa. It is not an Alfa to me in a million years.
Alfa's next move is apparently a saloon based on a RWD Cadillac platform........I despair, I really do. Fiat is cash rich, but Alfa is still a serious loss maker so it can't really afford to design a new specific engine/platform.

I think it will probably sell quite well and it's something new. The market place probably won't give a damn about its humble origins but I prefer something a little more 'honest'.

Andyboy, what about the Stratos? Lancia is one story, Alfa is another. It is quite sad what has happened to Lancia but Alfa has fared better under Fiat. I think you're being a bit hard on the Beta(the coupe and HPEs were lovely). I also quite like the Montecarlo.

There's no official word on the platform for the 169. But it will definitely be RWD which is good news I'd say.

Wait until you drive the Mito before judging it. You might be pleasently surprised..

Originally Posted by alesi

...
Wait until you drive the Mito before judging it. You might be pleasently surprised..

Absolutely agree. Once you drove the MiTo, you want one, I for sure can't wait...

Andy, I think you need to let a little grey into your black and white view of what makes an Alfa an Alfa. Alfa has never been the best run or managed car company, which is why it's had many turbulent years and ended up in bed with a few car companies along the way. Yes, it would be great if Alfa had remained independent, yes it would be great if it had the same business acumen and integrity as BMW, Honda or Porsche or Toyota. But the fact is, it hasn't.

Further, the dynamics of the motor industry in the 21st century means that there is so much more co-development going on between manufacturers. Unless you're brilliantly robust like BMW, Honda, or Porsche, it's often a case of tie-up or die. Even Porsche leaned on VW for the Cayenne, and I think (but might be wrong) that there's a BMW/MINI/Peugeot engine relationship.

Who knows what Alfa would have been like had it been independent. Maybe it would be a world beater. Maybe - and more likely - it would be bust, with nothing left to show for itself but the 'pure Alfa' Bertones and a few 75s. But the fact is that Alfa is still with us, and some of the shared platform cars have been among the best received in the last 30 or so years (164,GTV,156).

This may not meet your pureist ideal, but it meets the needs of the manufacturer, the industry, and the customer. Even as a former (five year) GTV6 2.5 owner, I can accept that some comprises need to be made if Alfa is to have any chance of surviving for another 100 years.

g

I kind of agree with you - better to have Alfa still going in some form or other. The kind of buyers the MiTo will attract (20-30 year olds) probably won't know or care about the Fiat bits.
If the MiTo drives well, is properly made and can be built in the required numbers it could well be a big hit in the UK, always one of Alfas most loyal (and tolerant!) markets. Like a lot of cars, it could look awful in the pics and amazing in the flesh. The more pics I see of it, the better it looks.

All it needs is a competent and well spread out dealer network! When is the UK launch?

i *think* the UK launch is Q1 2009. I'm even warming to the front end now (I'm already sold on the profile, rear and three quarter looks).

Signals are that dealers are feeling the effect of Alfa's whip-cracking. Despite the good work done so far, I'm still not entirely confident that the dealer network will be prepared for - or able to cope with - the interest MiTo will generate. You can't fix a thirty year problem over night; let's hope that the UK market has a fraction more patience remaining to let the MiTo succeed in parallel to the dealers finally sharpening up their act.

g

The problem with Alfa GB is that the wounds are all self inflicted. Back in 1992/3 they lost/binned off so many good dealers like Black and White, John Gill, Amersham Motors, Lansdowne Garage and Kinghams and tried to set up a chain of bigger AFG (Botnar of Nissan fame) places. These quickly went tits up of course. The famed 72'000 mile cambelt fiasco was just typical and that cost Alfa Romeo a lot of sales and goodwill. Look how the 156 took off and sold strongly for the first 3 years before tailing off.
The shame is that the good dealers (SGT, Mangoletsi etc) are very good. If only they had kept the good dealers sweet and added another 10-15 quality dealerships over the last 15 years they would be in a far stronger position now.
Alfa are never going to be a volume manufacturer like BMW and Mercedes/Audi have become but that's no bad thing. A 50 strong dealer network selling 25'000 new cars a year keeps customers happy, and a good reputation means waiting lists and good residuals. The tragedy is that with the right person at the helm of GB to stand up to the Italians (the root cause of half their problems) and lay down the law, it could be done.

Andy, i agree 100%. In other posts, i have chewed over Alfa's corporate culture. Everything that makes Alfa an 'Alfa', puts it in the tricky position where it has the complex juggling act of both living up to - and playing down - its past.

Alfa's success is both a result and a victim of the corporate culture that has characterised the company for 90 years; it announces one stunning car after another, creating a back catalogue that both captivates and entices young fans/engineers/recruits to the company; it has both fueled an image and encouraged a culture of 'as long as it looks great, goes great, who gives a hoot about customer service', thus creating a self-perpetuating legacy of style over 'couldn't give a stuff' customer service.

Thank goodness this being addressed today.

g

Alfa is like going out with Naomi Campbell...

Part of the attraction is that inevitably, sooner or later it WILL throw a strop!

But I like the deliberate or accidental built-in "insistence" that Alfas are still machines and not appliances. Sure, a Corloola will run to 1 million kms on the same cam-belt that it left the factory with.. but where's the fun in that?

Having to check the oil before every commute to work, putting the inlet manifold back on, or plugging in yet another sensor that fell off (though why didn't you put it back properly last time?) may be too much "character" for the masses (probably MiTo will be more user friendly, based on a Punto) but for me it adds a whole lot to the ownership experience.

Even the Younger Mrs S. (who is secretly jealous how much time I spend with Tarquini ) acknowledges that it DOES need a lot more fiddling with than a regular motor. She says " .. it's like a racing car..."



Ralf S.

Originally Posted by Ralf S.

probably MiTo will be more user friendly, based on a Punto

Even the current range are much more user friendly Ralf. It's the way things have to be if Alfa are to have enough money to develop "proper" Alfa Romeos.