78mm TB install - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 12Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
(Post Link) post #1 of 36 Old 12-05-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Jacobsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Denmark
County: Vestjylland
Images: 4
Garage
78mm TB install

Just a quick rundown of my Porsche Cayenne Throttlebody install. The TB is ID 78mm as compared to 72mm original and a lot cheaper than F360 (76mm) or F430 TBs (80mm) that is the usual choice. I bought a second han one of Ebay for 50.

First of I did not really know what to expect and reports from others are not consistent. But I like tinkering and realized I could do it for little money so went ahead.

I am a mechanical engineer by trade so first was to design a suitable adapter to soften the increase from 72 to 78 and allow for easy installment. I drew it up an had it 3D printet in PA6. I was concerned about air thightness initially but it was no issue. The adapter is 16mm thick.

Pictures
1. Previous setup. CDA airbox - silicone bend - AFM - silicone bend - TB
2. Cayenne TB - adapter - Silicone bend reduction - clip
3. Closeup adapter
4. Adapter installed with M6x20. Holes for TB threaded M6
5. TB installed with original screws
6. Final install. TB plugged in.


First start was almost normal. Iddle took a little longer to settle in. It came to rest at 700 like normal.

So on to the driving experience. Theres a big difference in throttle response. It comes on much stronger and makes driving fast a lot more effortless. Slow driving is not affected. WOT seems a tad quicker but hard to tell. I dont think you gain any hp but I would certainly do for the driveability. It just feels a lot more eager to move up the rev range.

I have been running the car for a week now and no issues so far.

I am due a RR session soon so might switch setups on there to measure.

If there is interest I could make the adapter open for public printing on Sculpteo. http://www.sculpteo.com/en/s/jacobsen/
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20160511_191429.jpg (98.7 KB, 112 views)
File Type: jpg 20160511_191346.jpg (124.8 KB, 96 views)
File Type: jpg 20160511_191359.jpg (63.1 KB, 99 views)
File Type: jpg 20160511_192358.jpg (67.1 KB, 96 views)
File Type: jpg 20160511_193827.jpg (91.5 KB, 113 views)
File Type: jpg 20160511_195207.jpg (111.1 KB, 116 views)

Peter Meldgaard Jacobsen
2000 GTV 3.0 24V

Last edited by Jacobsen; 24-06-16 at 09:01.
Jacobsen is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: bored
AO Member
 
moynesey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: United Kingdom
County: Peterborough
Hi,

Nice adaptor plate, did the wiring loom connector fit the Porsche TB?

Did you consider making the length of the adaptor longer to allow a more shallow decline between the 78mm opening to the original 72mm? Wondered if you may gain a small increase in torque?
moynesey is offline  
(Post Link) post #3 of 36 Old 13-05-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Jacobsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Denmark
County: Vestjylland
Images: 4
Garage
The wiring is plug and play as with other Bosch TBs

The difference in radius is 3mm and with a length of 16mm it is quite shallow. 10.6 degrees.
moynesey and sizewell like this.

Last edited by Jacobsen; 14-05-16 at 09:37.
Jacobsen is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Bambi_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Timbuktu
County: -
How does she perform with new throttle body?
Bambi_ is offline  
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2016
County: -
can you make an kit lfor me? here in brazil we dont have Cayenne TB, neither a 3d printer
aluzjunior is offline  
(Post Link) post #6 of 36 Old 13-05-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Jacobsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Denmark
County: Vestjylland
Images: 4
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bambi_ View Post
How does she perform with new throttle body?
Very good. Cant tell you anything about hp or torque gains but is definately an improvement. I tried to describe it in my opening post.
Jacobsen is offline  
(Post Link) post #7 of 36 Old 13-05-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Jacobsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Denmark
County: Vestjylland
Images: 4
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by aluzjunior View Post
can you make an kit lfor me? here in brazil we dont have Cayenne TB, neither a 3d printer
Aluz - just search Ebay for 948 605 115 03
like this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/03-04-05-0...AAAOSwLVZVs0W-

You should be able to find someone that will ship to you.

For the adapter you can order it from my shop on Sculpteo (an online 3D printing service that ships worlwide)
http://www.sculpteo.com/en/s/jacobsen/
Just order in plastic and a color if you prefer that.

Let me know if you need any help.
Jacobsen is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Bambi_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Timbuktu
County: -
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobsen View Post
Very good. Cant tell you anything about hp or torque gains but is definately an improvement. I tried to describe it in my opening post.

Yes so you did. My mistake. I was drinking beer and not reading your post properly.
Jacobsen likes this.
Bambi_ is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Hampshire
Hi this sounds great!
Would you recommend making this in aluminium?
mjaz101 is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Hampshire
Where did you get the silicon reduction elbow? I can't find any with id of 78mm!
mjaz101 is offline  
(Post Link) post #11 of 36 Old 15-05-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Jacobsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Denmark
County: Vestjylland
Images: 4
Garage
You could make it in any material you like. If you have a lathe aluminium would be fine. If not it will be a lot more expensive to have manufactured than 3D printed. A more basic round shape would also be preferable for lathe work.

The reduction is ID 90 to 76mm from ASH. 78 is ID of TB. OD is 89 afair. 76 ID fits over AFM
Auto Silicone Hoses - Silicone Polyester Reinforced Hose - 90 Degree Elbow Reducer - 90mm to 76mm - 15 Colours
mjaz101 likes this.
Jacobsen is offline  
Status: Building a 166 "GTA"
AO Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Sweden
County: Stockholm
Garage
Did the same modification on my GT 3.2 last year and on the CF3 engine it did wonders for throttle response and feels better at mid/low revs.

Haven't tried it on a CF2 engine yet but my upcoming 3.0 build will have one. Nice to see more people enjoying the throttle response.
FAssarsson is offline  
Status: -
Newbie
 
tatolopez's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: italy
County: Milano
Images: 6
great improvement!
have u remapped after the modifications?
tatolopez is offline  
Status: Love Alfas to death!
AO Member
 
Slicer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Estonia
County: Harjumaa (Tallinn)
Images: 22
Right now the price is too close to Autolussos aluminium F360 throttlebody's price.
I chose the "Polished alumide" adapter from You shop and price was 115 euros.
Autolussos full aluminium adapter price is 147 euros.
Right now I am not jumping on this, but great alternative.
Good work!
Slicer is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New Zealand
County: -
Polyamide, maybe? Also known as nylon.
sprint_veloce is offline  
(Post Link) post #16 of 36 Old 19-05-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Jacobsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Denmark
County: Vestjylland
Images: 4
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slicer View Post
Right now the price is too close to Autolussos aluminium F360 throttlebody's price.
I chose the "Polished alumide" adapter from You shop and price was 115 euros.
Autolussos full aluminium adapter price is 147 euros.
Right now I am not jumping on this, but great alternative.
Good work!
I have nothing to do with the pricing from Sculpteo. I just made it public.
I produced mine in the white plastic (PA6 I believe) option for 67 euros. It does the job fine and it works out a lot cheaper than getting the F360 TB at a high price and adapter at 147 euros. My option is 117 euros total for TB and adapter.
Jacobsen is offline  
(Post Link) post #17 of 36 Old 19-05-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Jacobsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Denmark
County: Vestjylland
Images: 4
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by tatolopez View Post
great improvement!
have u remapped after the modifications?
This mod requires no remap. ECU can easily make the adjustments.

The bottleneck in the intake is now the AFM diameter. If I get a bigger one a remap will certainly be neccessary.
Jacobsen is offline  
Status: Love Alfas to death!
AO Member
 
Slicer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Estonia
County: Harjumaa (Tallinn)
Images: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobsen View Post
I have nothing to do with the pricing from Sculpteo. I just made it public.
I produced mine in the white plastic (PA6 I believe) option for 67 euros. It does the job fine and it works out a lot cheaper than getting the F360 TB at a high price and adapter at 147 euros. My option is 117 euros total for TB and adapter.
http://www.sculpteo.com/en/s/jacobsen/
Clearly it shows base price 96 euros! How did You get it with 67 euros?
Also add shipping.
Slicer is offline  
Status: -
Newbie
 
tatolopez's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: italy
County: Milano
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobsen View Post
This mod requires no remap. ECU can easily make the adjustments.

The bottleneck in the intake is now the AFM diameter. If I get a bigger one a remap will certainly be neccessary.

thank u for your answer.

when u started the engine cold, did u saw increase the rpm over the 3500?

I bought one yesterday ....
tatolopez is offline  
(Post Link) post #20 of 36 Old 20-05-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Jacobsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Denmark
County: Vestjylland
Images: 4
Garage
When you choose the part there is an economy option with a bit longer lead time. This was 67 euros.

First start saw approx 1500 rpm (normally 1000 dropping too 700 for my car) Now it is normal again.
Jacobsen is offline  
Status: -
Newbie
 
tatolopez's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: italy
County: Milano
Images: 6
First start saw approx 1500 rpm (normally 1000 dropping too 700 for my car) Now it is normal again.[/QUOTE]


thanks!
i can't wait to mount it
tatolopez is offline  
(Post Link) post #22 of 36 Old 20-05-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Jacobsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Denmark
County: Vestjylland
Images: 4
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by tatolopez View Post
thank u for your answer.

when u started the engine cold, did u saw increase the rpm over the 3500?

I bought one yesterday ....
Nice. Remember to thread the holes for the new TB with normal M6 before mounting. Otherwise should be straight forward.
Jacobsen is offline  
Status: -
Newbie
 
tatolopez's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: italy
County: Milano
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobsen View Post
Nice. Remember to thread the holes for the new TB with normal M6 before mounting. Otherwise should be straight forward.
forgive me, but I dont understand what you suggest to me!
tatolopez is offline  
(Post Link) post #24 of 36 Old 20-05-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Jacobsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Denmark
County: Vestjylland
Images: 4
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by tatolopez View Post
forgive me, but I dont understand what you suggest to me!
The adapter has 4 countersunk holes that are used to attach the adapter to the plenum with 4 M6x20 internal hex screws. The other 4 holes (not countersunk) are for mounting the Porsche TB with the original screws from the original TB. These holes are printed as 5mm and need to be threaded to M6 (just use standard M6 thread tap) before mounting.

Threads in this size can not be accurately printed so needs to be cut afterwards.
Jacobsen is offline  
Status: -
Newbie
 
tatolopez's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: italy
County: Milano
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobsen View Post
The adapter has 4 countersunk holes that are used to attach the adapter to the plenum with 4 M6x20 internal hex screws. The other 4 holes (not countersunk) are for mounting the Porsche TB with the original screws from the original TB. These holes are printed as 5mm and need to be threaded to M6 (just use standard M6 thread tap) before mounting.

Threads in this size can not be accurately printed so needs to be cut afterwards.

now is Ok!!!
thanks!
tatolopez is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa GTV & 916 Spider

Tags
78mm , porsche , throttlebody

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome