Help - rear suspension Spider - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 46 Old 05-05-16 Thread Starter
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Help - rear suspension Spider

Hi all and greetings from Romania
Even if i read a lot this forum, it's my first time posting for help
I have a Spider Ph1 from 97 and I have a little problem after I installed new shocks and Eibach -20mm springs, the car its lowered on one side, in the pasanger back side
i checked on the internet and seems the problem is the faulty spring cups
Of course I bought them from Ebay and now I am waiting to arrive
I dont have acces to the car now to check because went for entire respray and will stay there for 2 weeks, and the ideea i cant check what is wrong with her is making me mad

Can be other problem besides spring cups and bump stops?
I mention that the car is fully powerflexed on the back, shocks are new magneti marelly, new Eibach Springs, etc
After the car will be resprayed I will want to make a full reconditioning of rear frame, check and paint arms, etc
I have a rear subframe for spare in case something is wrong with actual frame
If somebody had this problem, please let me know

And here are some pictures, I have the entire CUP kit but is not fully installed for the moment
Only the front splitter who looks very bad and wings, the sideskirts will be installed by the guys who make the respray
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(Post Link) post #2 of 46 Old 06-05-16 Thread Starter
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I see no answer yet from anybody
Went today to check the car at paint garage and also looked at the rear wheels
Is lowered the same on bolth parts but is to damn low
I saw that the car is sitting on the bump stops
checked ebay and are 2 different types of bump stops, some yellow short ones and black ones that are longer
I have longer type and the car is quite sitting on them

If i cut the bump stops the car will not go lower? Or the opposite, will stay as should be?
I am guessing that because the car is sitting on the bump stops, the spring is not working properly
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Phase 1 car like yours should have short black hard rubber bump stops. Should be about a 20 mm gap. Obviously if no gap the suspension won't work
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(Post Link) post #4 of 46 Old 06-05-16 Thread Starter
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I made a picture through the wheels, cant see much on the photo
problem is sience i put Eibach -20mm
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I see that the yellow ones are suitable for lowering springs

My question is if you know, if i put shorter bump stops, the car will sit normal or will be lower then this
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The yellow bumpstops are a softer foam type I think so I guess you don't need the same clearance as the short black ones. Either way the bumpstops should not effect the ride height, they are there as a last resort to stop wheels hitting the arches or the spring becoming coil bound. Are those 18 " wheel's? Might be a bit tight with lowered springs.
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(Post Link) post #6 of 46 Old 06-05-16 Thread Starter
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Yes they are 18' Siena's
What should i do? This is getting on my nerves
I just bought the Eibach's
Also ordered spring cups

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(Post Link) post #7 of 46 Old 06-05-16 Thread Starter
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Think will see only after in will be able to take the wheels off and check
Maybe the spring cups are distroyed or something with the spring pans
Will need to wait another 2 weeks until the car is painted and will be able to take the wheels off

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Measure from centre of the rear wheel up to the wheel arch in cms & post on here please.

It doesn't look too low to me & sitting on the bump stop doesn't really matter as they're soft.

Ignore what Alfisti.net say re the bump stops.

Ideally the early TS black & metal ones** are best if lowered to give a small clearance but it's easy to cut the soft yellow(sometimes black) ones down a bit. They still compress & work about the same. Lowering doesn't make the wheel/tyre move any further up into the wheel arch than std, it just means the first part of the suspension travel has already been used....in your case 20mm of travel.

18" Siennas & Eibachs are fine, depending on the wheel ET(hopefully no spacers fitted?) & tyre width....ideally 225/40.

**Early TS black/metal bump stops no longer available, they now all use the longer/softer 'yellow' ones.

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(Post Link) post #9 of 46 Old 06-05-16 Thread Starter
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I didnt fit any spacers and the tyres are 225/40
I need to go again to the paint garage to make the measurements
Already ordered new spring cups, means i will need to install them soon
If bump stops are broken and sit in the spring pan will affect the height?
In my oppinion is too low on the back, on a bad road the wheel touch inside the wheel arch

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(Post Link) post #10 of 46 Old 06-05-16 Thread Starter
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In the first set of pictures i posted here, the eibachs were just installed and the height was good
Please check the second set of pictures from the paint garage, is much lower

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Bump stops don't affect how the car sits when stationary, they only 'work' under full compression.

Your car looks fine in the 2nd set of pics.

Without bump stops the tyre will/can rub under full compression.

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(Post Link) post #12 of 46 Old 06-05-16 Thread Starter
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Thank you Clive for all infos
Now i just need to wait to finalise the painting and after in can fully check the rear suspension
I will come back with feedback in 2-3 weeks
Dont know if i need to order also bump stops, i dont think someone ever change them )
I have the car for 2 years now and even make fully rebuild of the engine
The car was a total mess when i took it

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Measure from centre of the rear wheel up to the wheel arch in cms & post on here please.

It doesn't look too low to me & sitting on the bump stop doesn't really matter as they're soft.

Ignore what Alfisti.net say re the bump stops.

Ideally the early TS black & metal ones** are best if lowered to give a small clearance but it's easy to cut the soft yellow(sometimes black) ones down a bit. They still compress & work about the same. Lowering doesn't make the wheel/tyre move any further up into the wheel arch than std, it just means the first part of the suspension travel has already been used....in your case 20mm of travel.

18" Siennas & Eibachs are fine, depending on the wheel ET(hopefully no spacers fitted?) & tyre width....ideally 225/40.

**Early TS black/metal bump stops no longer available, they now all use the longer/softer 'yellow' ones.

Clive
But lowering brings the whole car down towards the tyre hence less of a gap between arch and tyre.
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Originally Posted by spankdanny View Post
But lowering brings the whole car down towards the tyre hence less of a gap between arch and tyre.
Only by the amount of initial suspension travel 'lost'. By fitting a -20mm shorter spring, the whole suspension travel is now shorter by 20mm, the wheel/tyre doesn't go 20mm higher it travels to the same point as std.

For example IF std suspension travel is 100mm & you fit a -20mm lowering spring, this leaves you with 80mm suspension travel. This 80mm travel is the same 80mm as the last 80mm of a std set up.

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-20 mm spring. Car is 20 mm closer to ground. Wheel arch liner is 20 mm closer to tyre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spankdanny View Post
-20 mm spring. Car is 20 mm closer to ground. Wheel arch liner is 20 mm closer to tyre
Yes........& the suspension has 20mm less travel.

What's your 'question'?

Clive
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[/QUOTE]

Lowering doesn't make the wheel/tyre move any further up into the wheel arch than std,
.

Clive[/QUOTE]
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The full compression position will not change though, which is what usually matters for clearance.
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The term sit and move are the key points.

lowered cars sit lower and therefore the wheel is nearer the wheel arch.

Lowered cars the wheel does not move up into the wheel arch any further than a standard car when set up correctly.
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Lowering doesn't make the wheel/tyre move any further up into the wheel arch than std,
.

Clive[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Do you understand now Spank?

Clive
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All I'm saying is the more you lower the less clearance you have. Simples
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All I'm saying is the more you lower the less clearance you have. Simples
Very funny & not at all helpful.

Simple lowering doesn't cause clearance issues: no bump stops, too wide/tall wheel/tyre combinations...........or not understanding how the suspension moves does!

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The OP has already said the springpans are resting on the bumpstops and the tyres are rubbing the wheel arches. If that's not a clearance issue I don't know what is.
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(Post Link) post #24 of 46 Old 07-05-16 Thread Starter
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Guys
Lets wait until i will check the entire rear suspension
On one side of the back i dont have an antiroll link because ordered 5 pcs and all of them came wrong- for the driver side instead of pasanger side
Maybe thats why heard some suspision sounds in the back
Now i hav ordered, cups, bumps, set of anti roll links
When will come will install them all and come with feedback
No need for arguments
Peace

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Quote:
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The OP has already said the springpans are resting on the bumpstops and the tyres are rubbing the wheel arches. If that's not a clearance issue I don't know what is.
If you check the OP's posts again there's some inconsistency of his descriptions re his bump stops & his wheel(tyre) only touches on a bad road.

So the problem is probably down to his bump stops.....quite possibly being broken like most of the newer type are. We also don't know his wheel's ET but I think Siennas are ET28 which should be ok for clearance.

Until we get his measurements & a proper confirmation of the bump stops we're only guessing.....or in your case 'arguing' with me......again!?

Let's leave it there until the OP comes back with measurements etc.

Clive
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