Phase 1 (TRW2) airbag diagnostics - Solved!!! - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 2Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
(Post Link) post #1 of 158 Old 15-05-12 Thread Starter
Status: Spinning like a cat
AO Member
 
redtop_68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sweden
County: Stockholm
Phase 1 (TRW2) airbag diagnostics - Solved!!!

Thanks to our German Alfisti friend Peter Feil, the phase one GTV/Spiders with TRW2 airbag ECU (p/n 60625181) can now be diagnosed and reset with DIY tools.

You can download the software and get more information on the web page Peter have set up:
Trw2scan - RepairWiki

I have tested the software myself on my GTV and it works great. It's a simple command line interface and you might need some computer knowledge to work with it, but it does it's job.

The software also works for 145/146 with airbag ECU p/n 60631206.
redtop_68 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: #keepFightingMichael
AO Gold Member
 
EauRouge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Suriname
County: Brokopondo
Images: 12
Is this too good to be true?

Which exzactly is the "L-Line" that must not be connected? Is it the 3 pin croc clip connection?

Last edited by EauRouge; 15-05-12 at 15:50.
EauRouge is offline  
pkr
Status: Planning the next project ...
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Bedfordshire
Quote:
Originally Posted by EauRouge View Post
Which exzactly is the "L-Line" that must not be connected? Is it the 3 pin croc clip connection?
The airbag diagnostic connector should have 3 wires.

White-Red
Black
Light Blue-White

The black is earth. The other 2 are the K and L lines.

According to the workshop manual, the Light Blue-White wire is the L line and the White-Red is the K line
EauRouge likes this.
pkr is offline  
Status: WASTING ALL MY MONEY!
AO Member
 
buellboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Greater London
This is so amazing i need to shout it out from the rooftops!
buellboy is offline  
(Post Link) post #5 of 158 Old 15-05-12 Thread Starter
Status: Spinning like a cat
AO Member
 
redtop_68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sweden
County: Stockholm
It's hard to demonstrate that it really works on pictures, but here's at least two pics of the equipment I used.

The first shows the three ECUs used for testing and verifying the software. The leftmost is opened. In front of them is the wire harness with resistors to simulate the squibs. To the right is the standard KKL-adapter and the 16pin-3pin cable adapter used for diagnosis on Alfas.

The second picture is my modified KKL-adapter. It's the standard mod, connecting the K-line to varoius pins, to be able to use it in newer Alfas for airbag, ABS etc. I also cut the L-line inside the adaptor and wired it via the DIP-switch to be able to switch on and of the L-line easily.

I've also tested this in my car (-97 2.0TS) and sucessfully cleared the stored error codes and shut of the airbag light.

http://www.alfaromeo.org/ed/mess/353...35035Small.JPG
http://www.alfaromeo.org/ed/mess/359...9interface.JPG

I'll try to make a demo movie this weekend, but I'm not very familiar with that, so we'll see what comes out of it.

If you already have some knowledge about OBD, please give it a try and post your results here. Then we can start helping each other with this, and hopefully save us a lot of MOT failures.
redtop_68 is offline  
Status: more house renovations!
AO Silver Member
 
alfapash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: United Kingdom
County: Hertfordshire
Phase 1 owners will be thrilled at last they have a solution. Well Done
alfapash is offline  
Status: #keepFightingMichael
AO Gold Member
 
EauRouge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Suriname
County: Brokopondo
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkr View Post
The airbag diagnostic connector should have 3 wires.

White-Red
Black
Light Blue-White

The black is earth. The other 2 are the K and L lines.

According to the workshop manual, the Light Blue-White wire is the L line and the White-Red is the K line
Cheers pkr.
EauRouge is offline  
Status: Mangia bene, vivi felice
AO Silver Member
 
gtv73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: United Kingdom
County: Norfolk
Love it, congrats
gtv73 is offline  
Status: #keepFightingMichael
AO Gold Member
 
EauRouge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Suriname
County: Brokopondo
Images: 12
Can any of you guys who try and succeed with this please write your experiences here ....please! as i intend to try this this weekend.
EauRouge is offline  
Status: WASTING ALL MY MONEY!
AO Member
 
buellboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Greater London
Hi, just tried on my 145. Didn't succeed....partly because it was dark & cold but also because i seem to have driver issues.....I had to join the unidiag group grrrrrrr i couldn't remember my yahoo pwd *double grrrrrrrr as the verification code is super-long. So i signed with my gmail account which was a faff triple grrrrrr...only to find out that I have to wait for approval....triple grrrrrrrrrrr.

However I have got a reply from Yani over at FES and he tells me that this can be quite dangerous to reset so guys be careful!!!
buellboy is offline  
Status: #keepFightingMichael
AO Gold Member
 
EauRouge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Suriname
County: Brokopondo
Images: 12
Hi buellboy, did he say why?

PS: redtop_68 i have known from past discussions on this same subject and if he tells me it works then i believe that it will work as he has highlighted the problem with TRW 181 ecu's in the past and has been active in pursuit of a solution. If need be we should wait on his video as that will no doubt answer all the questions that need answered.
EauRouge is offline  
Status: WASTING ALL MY MONEY!
AO Member
 
buellboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Greater London
downloaded the drivers from ftdi's website and the ran the software. You can't just double click on the icon, it takes the .obd file as a parameter. Will try and connect tomorrow!
buellboy is offline  
Status: #keepFightingMichael
AO Gold Member
 
EauRouge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Suriname
County: Brokopondo
Images: 12
fingers crossed for you fella.
EauRouge is offline  
(Post Link) post #14 of 158 Old 16-05-12 Thread Starter
Status: Spinning like a cat
AO Member
 
redtop_68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sweden
County: Stockholm
Here you go! I guess I won't get an Oscar for this one, but I think you get the idea.

TRW2Scan demo.3gp - YouTube
redtop_68 is offline  
Status: #keepFightingMichael
AO Gold Member
 
EauRouge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Suriname
County: Brokopondo
Images: 12
Many thanks RedTop, I shall have a go this weekend. One question though? i believe that the error code is also stored in the main ecu hidden under the dash will this clear the error from that ecu also or can i only use this software only by actually plugging directly into TRW/airbag ecu?
EauRouge is offline  
Status: WASTING ALL MY MONEY!
AO Member
 
buellboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Greater London
RedTop great work! I've been talking to people over @ FES and Yani (the creator of FES) said that resetting this could potentially be dangerous, both Fiat Examiner and Uniscan 1.83 demand that a dummy circuit be put in place. Is this the case or can I do this with the airbag in the car?
buellboy is offline  
(Post Link) post #17 of 158 Old 16-05-12 Thread Starter
Status: Spinning like a cat
AO Member
 
redtop_68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sweden
County: Stockholm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EauRouge View Post
Many thanks RedTop, I shall have a go this weekend. One question though? i believe that the error code is also stored in the main ecu hidden under the dash will this clear the error from that ecu also or can i only use this software only by actually plugging directly into TRW/airbag ecu?
Peter is the one to be thanked. I have only done some testing and given feedback on the adaption for the 60625181.

The engine ECU is not connected to the airbag ECU in any way. You only need to connect to the airbag ECU and clear the errors there.
redtop_68 is offline  
(Post Link) post #18 of 158 Old 16-05-12 Thread Starter
Status: Spinning like a cat
AO Member
 
redtop_68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sweden
County: Stockholm
Quote:
Originally Posted by buellboy View Post
RedTop great work! I've been talking to people over @ FES and Yani (the creator of FES) said that resetting this could potentially be dangerous, both Fiat Examiner and Uniscan 1.83 demand that a dummy circuit be put in place. Is this the case or can I do this with the airbag in the car?
This is new information to me. Most of the testing I've done has been carried out on the bench with the test setup seen in the youtube movie. I've cleared the errors in my car once, and it worked without any surprises, but of course I can't give any guarantees.

If you want to be absolutely safe I guess you can use the same dummy circuit as I've used on the bench: just connect a 3.3Ohm resistor instead of every airbag.
redtop_68 is offline  
Status: #keepFightingMichael
AO Gold Member
 
EauRouge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Suriname
County: Brokopondo
Images: 12
Hi Redtop, would you mind giving an "Idiots Guide" as to the wiring setup you have on your bench test facility as i now have a TRW removed and looking to emulate the setup you have demonstrated on youtube, please!

Last edited by EauRouge; 03-06-12 at 19:43.
EauRouge is offline  
(Post Link) post #20 of 158 Old 20-05-12 Thread Starter
Status: Spinning like a cat
AO Member
 
redtop_68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sweden
County: Stockholm
OK, I'll try to explain.

First you need to know the pins of your 16 to 3-pin adapter cable. From right to left: K-line, ground, L-line. Note the postition of the small tab between ground and L-line.

http://archive.pixbox.se/arkivet/syn...0/33062693.jpg

Next is the connector of the TRW ECU. You connect to the upper row of 15 pins.

http://archive.pixbox.se/arkivet/syn...0/33062697.jpg

Here's the connections used. Pin 1 is rightmost, pin 15 leftmost.
Pin 1-2: Dummy resistor, Drivers Airbag (All resistors 3,3 Ohm. 2-4 Ohm would be OK)
Pin 3-4: Dummy resistor, Passengers Airbag
Pin 5: Not connected
Pin 6-7: Dummy resistor, Passengers Pretensioner
Pin 8 (green): L-line
Pin 9 (brown): K-line
Pin 10-11: Dummy resistor, Drivers Pretensioner
Pin 12: Not connected
Pin 13 (red): Dash airbag lamp ground
Pin 14 (blue): Ground (0 Volts)
Pin 15 (red): +12 V

A small lamp (1,2W) should be connected between +12V and pin 13.
"Driver" and "Passenger" is correct on my car that is left hand drive. It might be the other way around if you have a right hand drive car.
For the software to work you must NOT connect the L-line. You won't damage anything if you do, but the SW will not be able to connect to the ECU.

http://archive.pixbox.se/arkivet/syn...0/33062695.jpg


I found some suitable connectors at work that I crimped directly to the resistors/wires and used to connect to the ECU pins:

http://archive.pixbox.se/arkivet/syn...0/33062698.jpg

And finally the pin out taken from the GTV workshop manual (volume 3, page 294, pic is a bit edited)

http://archive.pixbox.se/arkivet/syn...0/33063024.jpg

Hope this helps!
AlfaRomeoPortal likes this.

Last edited by redtop_68; 21-05-12 at 15:01.
redtop_68 is offline  
Status: #keepFightingMichael
AO Gold Member
 
EauRouge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Suriname
County: Brokopondo
Images: 12
Top job fella!

Thank you.
EauRouge is offline  
Status: WASTING ALL MY MONEY!
AO Member
 
buellboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: United Kingdom
County: Greater London
I managed to connect my alfa 145...The connection was successful using the standard alfa cable (without modifications, but then on the website it does say that it is not necessary for a 145) and it returned the error "Driver side airbag out of tolerance". I traced the error to the plug behind the steering wheel being disconnected. Replaced the connector and ran diagnostics again. The driver side tolerance error was gone but I had another error: "ECU error" which could not be cleared!
buellboy is offline  
(Post Link) post #23 of 158 Old 21-05-12 Thread Starter
Status: Spinning like a cat
AO Member
 
redtop_68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Sweden
County: Stockholm
Quote:
Originally Posted by buellboy View Post
I managed to connect my alfa 145...The connection was successful using the standard alfa cable (without modifications, but then on the website it does say that it is not necessary for a 145) and it returned the error "Driver side airbag out of tolerance". I traced the error to the plug behind the steering wheel being disconnected. Replaced the connector and ran diagnostics again. The driver side tolerance error was gone but I had another error: "ECU error" which could not be cleared!
Good to hear that you succeeded to connect and clear the airbag error. I think the 145 has only two wires in the diagnostic connector: K-line and ground, so you won't have any problem with the L-line.

"ECU error" means an internal error in the ECU itself. Then the ECU is defective and needs to be replaced. It cannot be cleared with any software, not even Alfa/Fiat official. I had this error on my car when I started working with the airbag. I got a used ECU from Ebay.uk for 20.

The good news is that if this is the only error code you get, then you don't have any remaining errors in the car, so another ECU will solve the problem.

Last edited by redtop_68; 21-05-12 at 12:23. Reason: spelling
redtop_68 is offline  
Status: #keepFightingMichael
AO Gold Member
 
EauRouge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Suriname
County: Brokopondo
Images: 12
Many thanks RedTop68, After spending two days trying to get my head around the wires i eventually managed to get this to run .......................... and it worked!

No more airbag light, held my breath for three mins said three Prayers and turned key to MAR, airbag light bright and a few seconds later it went out ......

I reckon there is a gap in the market for someone to manufacture a lead for this software as i would have bought one had it been readily available.

So! P1 GTV/SPider TRW Airbag ecu owners we now have a solution.

Last edited by EauRouge; 30-05-12 at 12:25.
EauRouge is offline  
Status: Regrettably my Gtv was written off
AO Silver Member
 
alexGS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Zealand
County: Waikato
Images: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by EauRouge View Post
I reckon there is a gap in the market for someone to manufacture a lead for this software as i would have bought one had it been readily available.

So! P1 GTV/SPider TRW Airbag ecu owners we now have a solution.
Great news indeed

I've sold my phase-1 Spider, so I'll be using a test-bed setup to reset the spare ECU I have.

When you say 'a lead for this software', how do you mean? If you are resetting in the car, can you just clip one of the wires to the diagnostic plug (above the airbag ECU)? Seems odd that the wire would be there if it has to be disconnected.

Cheers,
-Alex
alexGS is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa GTV & 916 Spider

Tags
airbag , diagnostics , obd , phase , phase1 , solved , trw , trw2

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome