97 TS GTV radiator cooling fans not actuating. - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 13 Old 18-10-09 Thread Starter
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97 TS GTV radiator cooling fans not actuating.

Hello, I would be grateful if you coud please help.
I have a 97 TS GTV lusso ( dual cooling fan with AC).

Recently my radiator cooling fans have not been triggering on when the engine temp increases beyond the 90 deg mark.

I have recently replaced the thermostat, and the water sensor attached to the top of the thermostat and also both resistors within the radiator housing.

I have carried out the removal of the lead connected to the water sensor to see if the circuit to the fans themselves is functioning , and yes when i do this both the fans immediatly come on, initially at low speed then some seconds later at high speed.

So my question is as follows:

1) has this test proved that all resistrors, wiring, relays and fuses to fans is functioning and my problem lies within the ECU not sensing the temperature and hence not triggering the fans on?


What suggestiions do you have? I do not have alfa diag and am unsure as to how to test that a relay is functioning by using a multimeter.

I tried the ECU reset procedure requiring the -ve terminal of the battery to be removed followed by 90 secs in MAR position then 90 secs OFF position then start and leave...all to no avail.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
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Hi ABZ Alfa,
Have read your post and can relate to your exact problematic condition regarding the rad fan operation.
I have a ph 1 GTV 1996 Lusso, with twin fans and A/C. I have the car 6 years and have done a fair bit of work to it, some necessary and quite a lot which wasn't..! A theraputic way of spending money I suppose..! As part of this expendature, I decided to treat the car ( myself ) to a chip upgrade. When I fitted it it gave a good increase in low end performance, which was what I was looking for as I had just rebuilt the top end and had fitted a pair of Colombo & Barianni camshafts for improved low end pull at that time. After a few months I noticed that it appeared that my 2nd stage fans were not operating. As the rebulid was done in January the weather had been fairly cold for some months so I didn't really notice this too much. However as the warmer months came around I finally made some time available to research this confusing issue. I spent a long time going through circuit diagrams/ relay operations/wiring continuity checks and component operation tests to make some interesting observations.Your tests replicated mine.If you have forced both speeds on by disconnecting the temp sensor plug,the circuit is ok.My problem appeared to be that the new chip not being mapped for my ECU version M2.10.4 which controls the fan speed operation for cooling and A/C. Other ECU versions fan operations are controlled by a thermal switch fitted to the radiator. When I swapped the original chip back into the ECU and ran the engine the cooling fans operated as before ... i.e. 1st stage switching up to 2nd stage and back to 1st stage then off for a predetermined time depending on cooling requirements and the starting the cycle again. More noticable is the A/C operation where the stepping operation is most evident.So in my particular case the condition was brought on by change of chip. The operation of the 1st stage fan comes from pin no. 26 out of the ECU that of the 2nd stage fan comes from pin no.25. But if when you remove the temp sensor plug and both speeds kick in, as was the case in my car also, then one would imaging that the circuit , relays and wiring are 100%....so can your problem be internal in the ECU...especially if you are running everything in standard factory mode.
Not sure if this reply makes any sense of the problem but I hope it may give you some direction for some further investigating. Keep in touch with any updates.
Kind Regards.....nrq.
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(Post Link) post #3 of 13 Old 21-10-09 Thread Starter
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Thanks for that NRQ,
I took it to a reputable car electrical garage and after conducting their own ECU checking
they diagnosed a fauly ECU
They outlined that a new ECU would be approx 1000GBP all in. I subsequently asked them to hard wire a switch that i myself could throw to bring on the fans themselves. This work has been carried out and my car is now one more step "manual" than before.

I am also lighter some 180 quid.

Thanks for you post it was correct in outling the ECU as the culprit.
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H ABZ Alfa

Glad to hear you got the fan problem identified and sorted. Your problem resembled mine identically so was more than happy to offer any potential help.
Regards nrq.
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I had this - turned out to be a relay in the fuse box. Was the big 50Amp one
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Hello AndyRoo,
I did check that 50Amp fuse under the bonnet next to the relay cluster and it was fine in my case.

Thanks for the input.
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Originally Posted by ABZ Alfa View Post
Hello AndyRoo,
I did check that 50Amp fuse under the bonnet next to the relay cluster and it was fine in my case.

Thanks for the input.
I dont mean the fuse - in the fuse box in the drivers footwell I think there are two relays. (one for the first speed of the fan one for the second?)
One of them is 50Amp one it 30. The big one had failed on mine. I am assuming the TS is the same
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Anyone know what commands the fan to switch on, is it the temp sensor in the thermostat or the plug in the rad, my ems is the bosch motronic m2.10.3 so the ecu is not responsible.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeroulfella View Post
Anyone know what commands the fan to switch on, is it the temp sensor in the thermostat or the plug in the rad, my ems is the bosch motronic m2.10.3 so the ecu is not responsible.
For your model it's the thermal switch on the radiator. Later models (ecu m2.10.4) don't have this and the fans are controlled by the ecu.
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For your model it's the thermal switch on the radiator. Later models (ecu m2.10.4) don't have this and the fans are controlled by the ecu.
Thank Ian.
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To bring this thread back to life, i currently have no fan operational, i have disconnected the blue connector (NTC) from the thermostat and still no fans, Should i be disconnecting the connection that is in the engine block and goes to the temp guage inside the car?

Also, can anyone advise as to what size of cable i use to bridge the resistors also?

Cheers, ER

PPS: How do i find out which ecu i might have?
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Also, can anyone advise as to what size of cable i use to bridge the resistors also?
At least 2x2.5mm2 cable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EauRouge View Post
How do i find out which ecu i might have?
What type of engine do you have?

Regards
KL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EauRouge View Post
To bring this thread back to life, i currently have no fan operational, i have disconnected the blue connector (NTC) from the thermostat and still no fans, Should i be disconnecting the connection that is in the engine block and goes to the temp guage inside the car?

Also, can anyone advise as to what size of cable i use to bridge the resistors also?

Cheers, ER

PPS: How do i find out which ecu i might have?
Have you got AlfaDiag? You can command the fans using that (if your ECU supports it, of course - going by the year it should).

This will help you rule out the fan/supply, relays etc.
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