GTV Phase 3,It may be time to part company - Alfa Romeo Forum
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GTV Phase 3,It may be time to part company

Unfortunately in a bid to retain domestic harmony I may need to part with my Brunello Red 2004 2.0 JTS GTV. When returning home from last years tragic Shoreham Air Show I managed to cook the engine big time. Monza Sport in Ashington who have looked after the car since nearly new were not able to locate a JTS for love or even vast sums of money so after much searching I bought a 2007 GT Black Line. But when it came to scrapping the GTV I just could not do it and then out of the blue Monza took in another 2004 GTV JTS so I had then remove the engine from that car, fully overhaul it and put it in my car for a four figure sum, the first number of which was a 2. The car now sits on my drive way being washed a polished but not driven. My wife has a Giulietta and I really like the GT for which I probably paid too much for so maybe the GTV should go to a new home. Mechanically great but the lacquer on the roof is bad and there is a bald patch on the side of the bonnet where some paint flaked off and it has the usual paint chips etc as it was used everyday until it broke. It is a two owner car full full history and about 109k which is about what the replacement engine had also covered. Does this sound of any interest to anybody ? The car is in Brighton.
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welcome to the forum..................... its not for me but i guess anyone interested will want to see a few pics and it always helps with painting that picture
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Sorry for your troubles with that car..

sadly neither the JTS or facelift are hugely desirable for anyone looking for a GTV..TS is a better engine and most prefer the look of the PH1 and PH2.

With this in mind maybe autotrader or gumtree may be a better place to sell as it may catch the eye of a "non alfisti" who falls for its looks and relative rarity. They are a quirky car and a great drive.

Best of luck with it ,you are clearly an Alfa household with the GT and Giulietta as well!!

I can relate to the domestic harmony side of things as I have a GT and GTV as well as a Fiat coupe..Mrs has been piling on the pressure for me to sell one!

Where are you based?..

Sorry disregard the question.

You stated Brighton.
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What sort of price do you have in mind? Don't want to waste your time or mine so a figure you have in mind would be good.

Cheers

Steve.
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[QUOTE=joeymannero;15350714]Sorry for your troubles with that car..

sadly neither the JTS or facelift are hugely desirable for anyone looking for a GTV..TS is a better engine and most prefer the look of the PH1 and PH2.


Nothing wrong with the JTS and a lot less problematic than the twinny ( and I drive a twinny) Ph3 looks great as does the Ph 1/2.
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I don't understand why people dislike the p3. In my opinion it's the one facelift Alfa have done which works. The 147 and 156 facelift diluted the character of the originals. The Gtv face lift is much more aggressive. I've owned a 2l ts and driven a 1.6 ts. I much preferred the 1.6. Although neither had any special or unique feeling. The jts pulls like a train. Admittedly it has a short sweet rev range but it pulls.


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The JTS is probably the worst engine Alfa ever produced.
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An interesting statement. I like cheese.


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I like cheese too but the fact remains that the JTS engine has many many shortcomings that have given it an awful reputation with the Alfisti. I'd personally take a punt on a cheap one, but I like to tinker with engines.

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What do YOU consider the shortcomings?


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Injector failures, heavy oil usage, valves coked up, electrical issues.... loads of problems. I think the later 2004 engines were improved somewhat, certainly they have different piston rings to combat the oil usage.

It's a pity Alfa didn't get this one right to start with. It has far more torque at the lower end than the Twinnie although quite similar once on the go.

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Interesting, my jts does not use oil at all. My ts and 3.2 used 500ml a month. I can only go on my personal experience. I've had no engine troubles at all. I think the jts has far more character than the ts l owned. It's not as good as the boxer, far more powerful, but not as cheeky. It "feels"quicker than my GTA at the bottom end. To much wheel spin and torque steer in the GTA. My jts is an 04 as the OP.


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I do like the facelift model and I nearly bought one, it was very quick, much faster acceleration than my TS 2.0, we couldn't agree a price as it did have a lot of laquer peel, so I bought my TS 2.0 Spider instead which I love to pieces.
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His and hers, Spider and GTV in matching Brunello Red? It's a bit Howard and Hilda twee isn't it, or do you think I would get away with it?

What are you asking for it?
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[quote=GJR68;15351242]
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Originally Posted by joeymannero View Post
Sorry for your troubles with that car..

sadly neither the JTS or facelift are hugely desirable for anyone looking for a GTV..TS is a better engine and most prefer the look of the PH1 and PH2.


Nothing wrong with the JTS and a lot less problematic than the twinny ( and I drive a twinny) Ph3 looks great as does the Ph 1/2.
don't wish to trash the nice gentlemans car but re the engine...well firstly woth saying I speak from experience as I owned a GT with a JTS in it, it is not just the worst engine Alfa ever made ( opinion backed by every specialist I have ever spoken to regarding it) but maybe one of THE worst engines ever built, worn camshafts,Lambda and cat issues,coked up inlet mani's, most under the 165 bhp claimed when new, they sound Cr*p when compared to a twinnie and as far as reliability goes well the two I have known personally (one in my GT and one in a mates PH3 GTV) were awful, both rounded of exhaust camshafts causing misfires and lumpy running, both required premium fuel to be completely happy, both used lots of oil despite being run on 10/60 and mine in particular was bought by me with only 31k on the clock and required a new camshaft at 37k. very sensitive to both oil type and level and the direct injection thins the oil as the petrol contaminates it.

not a good piece of engineering, hence the engine was discontinued in its original guise after just 5 years in production being replaced with the GM 2.2 and 3.2 units in the Brera, hardly a success considering the twinnie was produced for 3 times longer... I now own a GTV 2.0 TS as well as my 261 BHP hybrid turbo 1.9 JTDm in the GT and would never choose a JTS over either..the twinnie is a hoot despite a lack of low end torque, more than makes up for it in sound which is glorious for a 4 pot...


re the facelift look, well I personanlly don't mind it, think the PH2 is the pick of the bunch but would consider the PH3 '' IF '' it didn't come with a JTS in it...the engine is the biggest turnoff IMHO, Loz, at Autolusso agrees, as does Stuart at alfanatics and several other's I don't know well enough to paraphrase...

the other point is almost everyone I have spoken too who was ''happy'' with their JTS did less than 10k a year, most less than 5k a year...all of the issues experienced by me and my pal were in fairly short periods of ownership with fairly low mileage examples, MY JTDm in comparison has done 40k since I bought it and has had NO engine related trouble whatsoever, new clutch, flywheel, slave and master cylinders and due to the mods a whole load of elective stuff but it has been super relaible, is now on 114k and I fully expect to get 200+ out of it.

given a 2.0 N/A petrol should be the epitome of reliability its a rather damning indictment that a heavily modified diesel pushing out almost double the power it was intended for is way more relaible...

give me a twinnie anyday over a JTS...
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Don't sit on the fence Joe, tell us what you really think
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Don't sit on the fence Joe, tell us what you really think

I thought I was holding back...
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Yep, saying the JTS was less problematic than the Twinny was misguided on my part. Apologies. I think the post mid- 2004 JTS's were a lot better and seeing some high mileage examples in the classifieds now. Twinnies are a great engine but need a very attentive owner. I've got mine at 140k now with full rebuild at 110k. Still drinks oil like it's going out of fashion
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Yep, saying the JTS was less problematic than the Twinny was misguided on my part. Apologies. I think the post mid- 2004 JTS's were a lot better and seeing some high mileage examples in the classifieds now. Twinnies are a great engine but need a very attentive owner. I've got mine at 140k now with full rebuild at 110k. Still drinks oil like it's going out of fashion
would agree the twinnie needs an owner who knows where the oil cap and dipstick are!! one of the reasons Alfa has such a bad rep is because people that are used to driving Golfs and Civics buy one seduced by the looks and handling and lack the mechanical sensitivity or knowledge needed to own one and run it succesfully to high miles...the design ethos is completely different, looks and driver experience are put ahead of service intervals and ease of maintenance by most Italian Marques as they are not chasing commuters and fleet buyers. The average Honda owner will just not understand the thinking behind it .


you are spot on with the opinion that later ones were better, but the whole concept was flawed, the JTS is basically a modified twinnie and has so many issues that perhaps would not be there if Alfa had gone back to the drawing board and started again rather than try and find a middle ground that allowed them to use parts they had already manufactured...budget once again dictating direction...mine was an 05 and still rubbish.

Imagine If Alfa had done what Audi did with the TT or Mercedes did with the compressor and went with a turbo or supercharged 4cyl 2l petrol..? wow, what a different car both the GT and the PH3 GTV would have been with 200+ forced induction ponies under the bonnet...we would now have both the V6 busso and 2.0 turbo as modern classics in both models.

the V6 turbo GTV is awesome so Alfa could have done it, the GT needed a better lump than either the JTS or 1.8 TS for the smaller displacement petrols, the sole reason why the diesel is so popular in the GT is because all the petrol options are in some way compromised, the 3.2 in fuel economy, the 1.8 in power and the JTS in character and reliability, no Alfa driver really wants a diesel but its sadly the best choice in both the GT and even the Brera.

two of the most beautiful Alfa's in recent history ruined by poor engine choices.. at least the GTV got a ''proper engine' in the smaller dispacement version in the 2.0 TS. the GT got a smoker, a drinker and a pile of Sh*te and the Brera two GM/holden monstrosity's and a smoker (all be it a quite acceptable 5cyl)... in fact one of the main reasons I own two cars is because the GT has such crap engine choices and I couldn't live with a derv as my only car.


Thank god they seem to have finally learned the lesson and are offering the Giulia in a 4cyl turbo with 280 BHP.. there is some hope!!!
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would agree the twinnie needs an owner who knows where the oil cap and dipstick are!! one of the reasons Alfa has such a bad rep is because people that are used to driving Golfs and Civics buy one seduced by the looks and handling and lack the mechanical sensitivity or knowledge needed to own one and run it succesfully to high miles...the design ethos is completely different, looks and driver experience are put ahead of service intervals and ease of maintenance by most Italian Marques as they are not chasing commuters and fleet buyers. The average Honda owner will just not understand the thinking behind it .


you are spot on with the opinion that later ones were better, but the whole concept was flawed, the JTS is basically a modified twinnie and has so many issues that perhaps would not be there if Alfa had gone back to the drawing board and started again rather than try and find a middle ground that allowed them to use parts they had already manufactured...budget once again dictating direction...mine was an 05 and still rubbish.

Imagine If Alfa had done what Audi did with the TT or Mercedes did with the compressor and went with a turbo or supercharged 4cyl 2l petrol..? wow, what a different car both the GT and the PH3 GTV would have been with 200+ forced induction ponies under the bonnet...we would now have both the V6 busso and 2.0 turbo as modern classics in both models.

the V6 turbo GTV is awesome so Alfa could have done it, the GT needed a better lump than either the JTS or 1.8 TS for the smaller displacement petrols, the sole reason why the diesel is so popular in the GT is because all the petrol options are in some way compromised, the 3.2 in fuel economy, the 1.8 in power and the JTS in character and reliability, no Alfa driver really wants a diesel but its sadly the best choice in both the GT and even the Brera.

two of the most beautiful Alfa's in recent history ruined by poor engine choices.. at least the GTV got a ''proper engine' in the smaller dispacement version in the 2.0 TS. the GT got a smoker, a drinker and a pile of Sh*te and the Brera two GM/holden monstrosity's and a smoker (all be it a quite acceptable 5cyl)... in fact one of the main reasons I own two cars is because the GT has such crap engine choices and I couldn't live with a derv as my only car.


Thank god they seem to have finally learned the lesson and are offering the Giulia in a 4cyl turbo with 280 BHP.. there is some hope!!!
I looked at this thread cos I need phase 3 gtv and I live in Brighton. Ive read more than a fair amount of opinionated bull****.
If the owner of the gtv wants to sell google "kevin sussex alfa" and give me a call.
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I looked at this thread cos I need phase 3 gtv and I live in Brighton. Ive read more than a fair amount of opinionated bull****.
If the owner of the gtv wants to sell google "kevin sussex alfa" and give me a call.
Easy Tiger. The options on this website are usually spot on. Running and buying an Alfa..........knowledge is king. Sounds like the JTS has some significant issues, so it's extremely important to read up on all the information available. I'm running a 166 TS and GTV 3.2 and desperately rely on the members of this forum to ensure I can justify continued ownership........ to an increasingly sceptical wife and kids
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He has a point tho,unfortunately every JTS thread goes the same way.
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Because facts are facts. The JTS is a problematic engine. Doesn't mean they all are, I'm sure They are not but only fair to point out the issues.

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The problem I have is that these things start to become "folklore". People commenting on issues that they have just read here. Someone said the jts is the worst engine ever made?? Try driving a 2014 1.6 focus. The jts knocks spots of it. And it's 12 years old. I can only comment on my personal experience of actually owning a jts. I have had no reliability issues thus far, I'm sure I will, it's a twelve year old car. I have owned both the 1.6 and 2.0 ts and the jts is a lot quicker on acceleration. So from my actual experience of owning a jts it is better.


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To be fair, Fiat/Alfa engineering is not known for its bulletproof -ness. They all seem to be a bit high maintenance. Not sure if it's the design or quality of components but they aren't Hondas. My other half has a Jazz. 6 years old, 175,000 miles and nothing has ever gone wrong. Still on original clutch and no cambelt to change every 5 minutes. It is dull though.
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