Gtv pulling to left when braking. - Alfa Romeo Forum
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Gtv pulling to left when braking.

Hi

Sorry for the rambling post**

My poor old car has been a tad trying the past few months , she may getting jealous of the younger spider , so far this year new radiator and a new spring pan* recently* , after being stood for a few months while I sourced a second hand spring pan as new ones are so expensive not that the S/H one exactly cheap I had noticed that the braking had become a bit wooden and was pulling to the left .

*I had the car transported to a local* garage( I would normally take it to a Alfa indie in Birmingham) and asked them look at the brakes when fitting the spring pan. When I received the car back they said just to drive for a bit as the disk on the RH was a bit rusty but driving it should clear it .

*This didn't cure it so it went back to them for another look , they changed the rear calliper that I supplied and also changed all the pads which did look a bit ropey. They said the front right did look a bit seized but they freed it up .

*Drove it home and it did seem a bit better but not great , drove it the next day and braked hard and the car was still pulling to the left , so now not super happy with the garage, Rang the garage and they said it was likely the FRH calliper , so I ordered a SH one but decided to take to a local tyre and brake fitters (Hardy Tyres ) who I had used before and have been most helpful in the past* (as I had lost a bit of confidence in this local garage).

*They fitted the calliper last Saturday,* I didn't ask them to look at anything else as I thought this would cure the problem , but driving home it was still doing the same thing of pulling to the left.

*I popped the car back to Hardys* in the week and explained the problem , they were really good and spent about an hour looking at the brakes (which they didn't charge me for) they said it looked like the problem was with brake master cylinder or/and the servo.They couldn't see where the master cylinder was fitting so suggested that I take it to a Alfa specialist as they said it wasn't something that wanted to take on , so decided I'll give the garage I normally take the car a call .

*I was hoping someone here will have done this before as I have no idea how much or how big of a job this will be it would be good to have of the cost , or if anyone has had a similar problem with their car.

Many thanks*

*

Daniel
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Unlikely to be the servo( pray that it isn't cos that's a nightmare to change), the pedal will feel solid and you will struggle to stop at all. Could be master cylinder. The brakes are dual circuit and cross linked so 1 circuit operates front left and rear right callipers and the other circuit operates the opposite ones. You could put it on a brake tester or probably cheaper to take it for an MOT. This will show any imbalance in the brakes. If all good then maybe you have a suspension/alignment issue.
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I can't see how it could be the master cylinder or servo without affecting all the brakes. There is a reasonable chance that the second hand calliper was also partially seized, especially if it had not been used for a while. Equally, the flexible hose to the calliper could be collapsing internally and restricting the fluid to the calliper. Either way it is an easy job to check and fix and you don't need a specialist.

I've changed the master cylinder on my old V6 and it was awkward but very doable.
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As above, get the hoses checked.
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As above, check hoses! (bleed and see). Hoping it's just a brake-fluid flush manner and nothing more.

Also, check the brake-distributor located on the rear subframe (you are in UK, so co-driver side). Have seen something similar in the past...

Also, i believe it would be nice if you measure thickness of all your disks (front & rear). And who says that the problem is located on the rear brakes for sure?

Master-brake cylinder not likely... Servo too... (got used one in working condition for sale, if you need, anyway)
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The brake pedal is very hard and wooden to press and braking is quite bad .
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Oww man, this is something you should told in the beggining!

Given that you have actually bleed the system and yet the pedal remains stiff, then its defo the master-cylinder / servo assembly.

The master-cylinder failure, could also explain why you car is pulling left.

But i am not so sure that your servo have any problem. Its for sure that something is not building up pressure.

What i would do, is firstly change master-cylinder and then do a brake-fluid flush, in order to remove any possible particles / debri from the sytem.

This will probably solve the pulling-left problem. But, if it still doesn't build up pressure, then you will have to change servo too...

The cost is not serious for parts (could give you both for 200e + PnP, including brake-distributor located in the rear subframe, in order to be sure!) and labour for changing master-cylinder + brake-distributor is relatively low as its an easy job, but labour for the servo could be a problem. There are 6 (if i remember correctly) 13mm bolts, and they are a heck to be accessed.

Ofc you can get new original parts(!), but they are sold as set only and cost around 1150 euro + PNP! :P

Last edited by Desame; 10-10-16 at 09:57.
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As suggested earlier, get it on a mot brake tester/rollers to see which wheels are braking.

I've never had a rear make a GTV pull, nearly all the braking's done with the fronts.

Nor have I had to change a master cyl, a collapsed hose &/or a sticky caliper are more likely.

Clive
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The brake pedal is very hard and wooden to press and braking is quite bad .
Servo problems are rare and unlikely to cause an imbalance. But to test servo- with engine off, pump brake pedal 6 times and hold it down. Start engine and you should feel the pedal move downwards. To feel what it's like braking with faulty servo - find a gentle slope, apply handbrake and switch off engine. Pump pedal 6 times and release handbrake. Panic cos it feels like you're not going to stop. Try it with the engine running and there should be a dramatic difference. Obviously do this somewhere safe.
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The only time I have had a GTV pull under braking was when one of the front wishbone bushes failed. (the one at the rear of the arm)

Easy enough to check.
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The only time I have had a GTV pull under braking was when one of the front wishbone bushes failed. (the one at the rear of the arm)

Easy enough to check.
yes agreed......................... i jacked up my car and set my mobile to record whats happening under the wheel arch and pointing at the suspension bushes and to my surprise there was huge moment when going lock to lock, there was no clonking just weirdness when accelerating and braking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dansolo View Post
The brake pedal is very hard and wooden to press and braking is quite bad .
It will be with a seized calliper or collapsed hose.
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Guys,

if it was for a collapsed hose that would result in leaks and finally he wouldn't have any pedal at all! It would be on the floor.

Also, in which way a collapsed caliper would block the flow and make the pedal "wooden"? Either it would leak, so again no pedal, nor do nothing.

Since the pedal is "wooden", it means that the fluid is in there with no leaks, but also no pressure.

Finally, since there is no pressure, then how the MOT check would validate a broken (or anything else) caliper etc? How are you sure that any brake differences are not due to a blocked (or to-be-blocked) fluid passage etc etc?

Anyway, just some thoughts... The only sure thing, is that behind a keyboard, no actual diagnosis can be made!


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Quote:
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Guys,

if it was for a collapsed hose that would result in leaks and finally he wouldn't have any pedal at all! It would be on the floor.

Also, in which way a collapsed caliper would block the flow and make the pedal "wooden"? Either it would leak, so again no pedal, nor do nothing.

Since the pedal is "wooden", it means that the fluid is in there with no leaks, but also no pressure.

Finally, since there is no pressure, then how the MOT check would validate a broken (or anything else) caliper etc? How are you sure that any brake differences are not due to a blocked (or to-be-blocked) fluid passage etc etc?

Anyway, just some thoughts... The only sure thing, is that behind a keyboard, no actual diagnosis can be made!


Spankdanny +916
A collapsed hose is blocked internally & doesn't leak, an mot brake/rolling test will show which wheels are braking & by how much.

Clive
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dansolo View Post
The brake pedal is very hard and wooden to press and braking is quite bad .
I thought that was normal for a GTV
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Guys,

if it was for a collapsed hose that would result in leaks and finally he wouldn't have any pedal at all! It would be on the floor.
Have a look at this -


20 year old Mercedes hoses.

How old are the hoses on the OPs car? Factory original?
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Pkr,

as always, very good posts which i enjoy (squadra916 too)

Well, what we see in the video, is a result of debris + indeed collapse of internal walls.

But, OP told that he had his car checked twice! (especially 2nd time, more than 1 hour). If this thing wasn't checked, then what to say..

This is what i had in my mind when i was refusing "collapsed hoses" as a possible cause. Also, that's why i was talking of brake flush. So the OP doesn't have to make unecessery expenses. If after flush, hoses are not flowing, then ok, they need to be changed.

Anyway, i see that we all make comments except from the OP..! :P
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The brake pedal is very hard and wooden to press and braking is quite bad .
These cars are notoriously bad for being wooden dead and extremely poor braking................ dont think this is part of your problem as much as its what a perfectly healthy car is like anyway

I have changed hoses, fluids and pads had the Brembo brake rebuild kit and its better but still a mile of anything modern
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Hi

Sorry for the rambling post**

My poor old car has been a tad trying the past few months , she may getting jealous of the younger spider , so far this year new radiator and a new spring pan* recently* , after being stood for a few months while I sourced a second hand spring pan as new ones are so expensive not that the S/H one exactly cheap I had noticed that the braking had become a bit wooden and was pulling to the left .

*I had the car transported to a local* garage( I would normally take it to a Alfa indie in Birmingham) and asked them look at the brakes when fitting the spring pan. When I received the car back they said just to drive for a bit as the disk on the RH was a bit rusty but driving it should clear it .

*This didn't cure it so it went back to them for another look , they changed the rear calliper that I supplied and also changed all the pads which did look a bit ropey. They said the front right did look a bit seized but they freed it up .

*Drove it home and it did seem a bit better but not great , drove it the next day and braked hard and the car was still pulling to the left , so now not super happy with the garage, Rang the garage and they said it was likely the FRH calliper , so I ordered a SH one but decided to take to a local tyre and brake fitters (Hardy Tyres ) who I had used before and have been most helpful in the past* (as I had lost a bit of confidence in this local garage).

*They fitted the calliper last Saturday,* I didn't ask them to look at anything else as I thought this would cure the problem , but driving home it was still doing the same thing of pulling to the left.

*I popped the car back to Hardys* in the week and explained the problem , they were really good and spent about an hour looking at the brakes (which they didn't charge me for) they said it looked like the problem was with brake master cylinder or/and the servo.They couldn't see where the master cylinder was fitting so suggested that I take it to a Alfa specialist as they said it wasn't something that wanted to take on , so decided I'll give the garage I normally take the car a call .

*I was hoping someone here will have done this before as I have no idea how much or how big of a job this will be it would be good to have of the cost , or if anyone has had a similar problem with their car.

Many thanks*

*

Daniel
had the same with my spider,wooden pedal,pulling to one side.it was the abs block.garage disconnected the pipe to the front left caliper and pressed the pedal and nothing came out.secondhand pump and all was well
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I've booked into the Alfa Garage Indie I normally take it to now over in Birmingham so I'm sure be able to diagnose it quite quickly.

Thank you all for your replies and comments .

Daniel
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A spanner in the works!

Dan, have you checked your shocks? A shot shock can cause car to dive on both accleration and braking.
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Got the car back from the garage , sorry to say no came up with the correct answer , the problem was in fact a faulty ABS pump , drove the car back and all braking back to normal , thanks again for input guys .
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Except yellowspyder in post 19...
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Except yellowspyder in post 19...
Yep - spot on!
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Kudos , sorry I missed that .

Daniel
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