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Old 31-03-12
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Electric window trying to operate while engine off ?!

Hiya

I realise Saturday night might not be the best time to be posting with a problem but as I might be on the way to a flat battery here goes....

Took the GTV out tonight and both electric windows seem to have packed up at the same time. they worked fine when I last drove the car although the passenger side one was a little slow at responding to the drivers side button and a little slow going up and down.

It's not so much the fact they don't work that bothers me as I am due a service at someone like SimplyAlfas or WAD soonish anyway but although the drivers side one is making no noise at all I can clearly hear the passenger side one attempting to operate every few seconds even when the engine of switched off.

I have had a few flat battery issues since I have had my baby - first the boot light stuck on and then the puddle lights stuck on and now appear to be on my way to another if I can't find a way to stop it...Does anyone have any ideas ? I'm afraid electrics isn't my best point when it comes to Alfa's !

Thanks for anyone who can offer any suggestions

Last edited by davybuk; 31-03-12 at 21:11. Reason: typo
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  #2 (Post Link)  
Old 31-03-12
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do you mean its happening with engine off, ignition key out and with no buttons pressed ?
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Old 31-03-12
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Yes engine off, key out and nothing being pressed
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Old 31-03-12
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Sounds like you need to go around all the earths and clean them.
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Old 31-03-12
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Originally Posted by EauRouge View Post
Sounds like you need to go around all the earths and clean them.
yes and as a quick fix to save battery until its sorted you could pull two 25amp fuses feeding the power windows/door locking system which depending on year are most likely located under steering wheel fuse area I beleive although thats just a guess. I've read a post on here with a similiar situation described so do a search and good luck.
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Old 31-03-12
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have you got autodrop windows ?
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Old 31-03-12
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Originally Posted by gtvtommo View Post
have you got autodrop windows ?
Yes I do....
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Old 31-03-12
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Originally Posted by davybuk View Post
Yes I do....
right.................now from memory the post I referred to above had something to do with a faulty micro switch PKR's your best bet here you could send him a pm unless someone with more knowledge than me jumps in here in the meantime
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Old 01-04-12
pkr pkr is offline
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The windows stop closing by the controller detecting whether the motor has stalled or not.

What I don't understand at the moment is why the window continues to operate with the engine off. I believe GTV/Spider window systems are normally disabled with the ignition off.

What year is the car? If it's around 2000 on, does it have autodrop windows?
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Old 01-04-12
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I've had this problem twice now. Sort of a pinging / clicking noise from the door every couple of seconds. Only way I could get it to stop was to disconnect battery, but it would start again as soon as I tried to open the Window. Removing the fuse would be much easier if you can find the right one.

Both times I have managed to fix by removing the door card and fiddling with the microswitch, but it seems there is some voodo involved because both times I gave up and reassembled the door, and then it magically worked a day later! (Could tell because the auto drop started working again).
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Old 01-04-12
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It's a 2001 with autodrop windows yes....

Does anyone know which fuse it is for the electric windows please ? I have the fuse box down but the manual says there are diagrams by each one to tell you what each one is but there only seem to be a few of them and none of them jump out at me as being for the windows ! Thanks !

Edit as I hadn't pulled the fuse tray down far enough to see the rest of the diagrams but I still don;t know which one is for the electric windows...perhaps it shares a fuse with something else ?

Last edited by davybuk; 01-04-12 at 09:23. Reason: more info
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Old 01-04-12
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Just had a quick look in the Tech manual and I think it's no 4 (20A - Yellow - right hand column, 4th from bottom)
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Old 01-04-12
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Originally Posted by Lister View Post
Just had a quick look in the Tech manual and I think it's no 4 (20A - Yellow - right hand column, 4th from bottom)
Thanks for looking I really appreciate that.....

I've just been out to the car and tried pulling out all five of the yellow 20A ones one by one and the passenger side window continues to attempt to operate :-(
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Old 01-04-12
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Just found another page. Can you see a two white 25A relay/fuses marked G311 / G310? Try pulling those.
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Old 01-04-12
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Are those in the main fuse board ? There are only two white ones in there although I can't see any markings G310 G311
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Old 01-04-12
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Quote from manual:

"A set of fuses and relays is positioned on an auxiliary bracket (not removable) on the left-hand side of the main fusebox; next to this is also the power window control unit N38, the electronic key control unit N77, and the electronic windscreen wiper device N14."

There is a diagram of the fusebox area by the drivers area, but no key or numbers on it. Also note that the diagram is for a LHD car, so "on the left-hand side" may actually be "on the right-hand side". Dunno if the bracket is reversed on RHD.

There is a then a list of fuses/relays, with G311 and 310 being "Power window fuse" and "RH Power window fuse" (They are the only two 25Amps listed)

Sorry, it doesn't give any more info
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Old 01-04-12
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Originally Posted by Lister View Post
Quote from manual:

"A set of fuses and relays is positioned on an auxiliary bracket (not removable) on the left-hand side of the main fusebox; next to this is also the power window control unit N38, the electronic key control unit N77, and the electronic windscreen wiper device N14."

There is a diagram of the fusebox area by the drivers area, but no key or numbers on it. Also note that the diagram is for a LHD car, so "on the left-hand side" may actually be "on the right-hand side". Dunno if the bracket is reversed on RHD.

There is a then a list of fuses/relays, with G311 and 310 being "Power window fuse" and "RH Power window fuse" (They are the only two 25Amps listed)

Sorry, it doesn't give any more info
Thanks for your kind help again !

Sounds like if I could find that box it might be what I'm after....
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Old 01-04-12
pkr pkr is offline
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It will be the white 25A fuses.

OK, the autodrop explains it closing the window even with the ignition off. This coupled with your observation on the slowness of the passenger window makes me think that the autodrop mechanism is trying to close the window but, maybe because the motor is near knackered, the controller isn't getting the correct current sensing information to think the window is closed.

Two ways to diagnose further and it means removing the door card.

Wind the window all the way down
Remove the door card
Unplug connector for the autodrop switch. This is a two way connector near the motor. Don't disconnect the motor by accident! The wire colours will be either 'Green-Black and black' or 'Light Blue-Red and black'.

Take the half of the connector on the car side ( you should see the wires going to the main door loom ) and bridge out the two terminals in the connector with some wire. This is not permanent - it is just a test. What you're doing is taking the green-black or light blue-red wire ( whichever is correct for the door ) and connecting it to ground. This will effectively disable the autodrop.
Close the door.
Ignition on and wind the window all the way up.
Ignition off.
Open the door - window will not autodrop
Close the door and you shouldn't hear the motor going anymore as you describe in your first post.

If that's the case, you now need to diagnose the actual problem!

Possible causes are :
Knackered motor
Window controller failing
Poor conductivity in one of the connectors along the way

The last is the easiest to test and I'd start with the connector betweenthe door and 'A' pillar. Undo that and check as much as you can for corrosion/dirt. Try a few repeated plugs/unplugs to see if that cleans it up a bit. Test by removing your bridging in the autodrop connector and opening/closing the door.

Testing the motor and controller is a bit more involved and problematical. I'll have a think.

EDIT : Whilst this does not appear to explain why the driver's window is also not working, when I was experimenting with retro fitting autodrop to my phase 1, I did see a similar situation. In my case the window went down all the way and behaved as your passenger window does and the other window was disabled.

If you do the experiment above and the driver's window still fails to operate, then that would point to a faulty controller.

Last edited by pkr; 01-04-12 at 10:27.
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Old 01-04-12
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Thanks to everyone for their help....
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Old 01-04-12
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Originally Posted by pkr View Post
Wind the window all the way down
When mine went the windows were dead, so couldn't do this. The first time the passenger window still worked, but the second time both died even though I was operating the driver's side.

Thinking back now I think I tried pulling every fuse I could find but still couldn't get it to stop. Quite possible there were some squirrelled away though that I missed.

I'd be really interested to find a proper solution to this since my "fiddle and it eventually went away" fixes were most unsatisfactory, so very grateful for any advice too.
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Old 01-04-12
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Yes my windows won't work at all up or down now so I can't do that either...
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