non starter TS spider (bought like it)

[bembo449]

bought a 98 spider off another member on here last wednesday as a non runner ! he had the engine swapped but couldn't get it running again , the injector light was on but that has now gone out , i've re-timed the cambelt with a proper timing kit , there IS fuel at the rail , there is no spark ! i'm guessing ( read about) crank sensor ?? is it worth trying this before my diag mate has a look on friday ?
thanks in advance

[iainfm]

Could be. Stick a multimeter across it and see if it's reading around 800 ohms...

Is the injector light coming on then going off, or staying off altogether?

[bembo449]

Originally Posted by iainfm

Could be. Stick a multimeter across it and see if it's reading around 800 ohms...

Is the injector light coming on then going off, or staying off altogether?

to start with it was staying on BUT the lambda was unpluged , i plugged it back in and now have no lights on at all ! still nothing , looking at the engine i'd swear it was a re-con unit ! where do i need to test it with the metre mate ??

[iainfm]

The brown plug at the back/right of the engine. Under the plastic cover (if it has one).

But...if there's no initial injector light, I'd be looking at whether the ECU is getting power...or is earthed properly

[bembo449]

Originally Posted by iainfm

The brown plug at the back/right of the engine. Under the plastic cover (if it has one).

But...if there's no initial injector light, I'd be looking at whether the ECU is getting power...or is earthed properly

ok bud , might have slightly mislead you , the injector light comes on blinks then stays on BUT now goes out as it should after i plugged the lambda back in , on i'll test the c.sensor re-check all the conections and test the crank sensor and see what occours ??
thanks for the info

[seymour beaver]

I would be interested in the outcome as i was interested in it myself.My original thoughts were an earth is missing or its been incorrectly wired up.Its possible the main ecu has got damp because its stood so long.If my memory serves me correctly the crank sensor has already been checked. Id start from scratch and check the loom has been correctly fitted and that the earths are in place also run an earth lead from the battery directly to the engine.Check the starter is correctly wired up and its got an earth you could always run a l;ive to it.

[bembo449]

Originally Posted by seymour beaver

I would be interested in the outcome as i was interested in it myself.My original thoughts were an earth is missing or its been incorrectly wired up.Its possible the main ecu has got damp because its stood so long.If my memory serves me correctly the crank sensor has already been checked. Id start from scratch and check the loom has been correctly fitted and that the earths are in place also run an earth lead from the battery directly to the engine.Check the starter is correctly wired up and its got an earth you could always run a l;ive to it.

i was hoping someone on here would have some knowledge on this cars problems ! i'd just like to do summat before my mate gets to it on friday ( he has alfa dealer diag ) , i'm starting to think that its not been hooked up properly , i have done a few engine swaps on 156's but this is my first GTV ! the MAF n lambda wernt connected so its possible something else has been missed ?? the timing wasnt correct either , the car now turns over much more freely than it did when i first tried it ! i take it an ECU failure would show up on a diag run ??

[driver33p4]

I don't like the sound of "the timing wasnt correct" bit. How far was it out?

[stoyce]

Originally Posted by bembo449

bought a 98 spider off another member on here last wednesday as a non runner ! he had the engine swapped but couldn't get it running again , the injector light was on but that has now gone out , i've re-timed the cambelt with a proper timing kit , there IS fuel at the rail , there is no spark ! i'm guessing ( read about) crank sensor ?? is it worth trying this before my diag mate has a look on friday ?
thanks in advance

Depends what has been done when the engine was swapped - i.e. was it swapped like for like, or has a later engine been fitted to an early car?
Is the cam sensor the right one? (Early ones are different from later ones and the ex cam wheel has a different cut out for the sensor pick up??? - wouldn't cause it not to spark tho...)
Could be a bent pin on the engine ecu - easy to do if the connector isn't plugged in with care.
Is the earth wire connected on the metal coil pack frame? etc etc

[bembo449]

Originally Posted by driver33p4

I don't like the sound of "the timing wasnt correct" bit. How far was it out?

the crank was not too far out but the front cam was 180 degrees , all the valves are still moving freely

[bembo449]

Originally Posted by stoyce

Depends what has been done when the engine was swapped - i.e. was it swapped like for like, or has a later engine been fitted to an early car?
Is the cam sensor the right one? (Early ones are different from later ones and the ex cam wheel has a different cut out for the sensor pick up??? - wouldn't cause it not to spark tho...)
Could be a bent pin on the engine ecu - easy to do if the connector isn't plugged in with care.
Is the earth wire connected on the metal coil pack frame? etc etc

its a 98 yr model spider so should it have the CF1 in it ? i'm getting it plugged into tommorow so i'll await the outcome before checking anything else

[.:ian:.]

Originally Posted by bembo449

its a 98 yr model spider so should it have the CF1 in it ? i'm getting it plugged into tommorow so i'll await the outcome before checking anything else

98 is the cut over year, but I think yours is Jasons blue spider? In which case its a PH1/CF1 alloy topped engine.

You`ve seen this thread? http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/engin...fuel-help.html (Engine won't start no spark /fuel HELP)

[bembo449]

Originally Posted by .:ian:.

98 is the cut over year, but I think yours is Jasons blue spider? In which case its a PH1/CF1 alloy topped engine.

You`ve seen this thread? http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/engin...fuel-help.html (Engine won't start no spark /fuel HELP)

thats the one matey , no i hadn't but just read it . interesting read ! i'm hopin my diag mate will work his magic tommorow !

[seymour beaver]

As i understand it he never even got the new engine to start and would not have known the timing was out.When valves are bent the engine will turn over freely probably better the normal.

[bembo449]

Originally Posted by seymour beaver

As i understand it he never even got the new engine to start and would not have known the timing was out.When valves are bent the engine will turn over freely probably better the normal.

dont know mate , but i have pressed all the valves down individually and they are far too free to be bent IMO but i wont know for sure till i get it going (IF)

[Homersimpson]

Just a quick post, not sure I can help but many years ago I put a fiat tipe sedicvalvole engine into a kitcar and couldn't get it to run (complete injection ECU etc.) it turned out that the lambda sensor and crank sensor connections had the same plug on them and I had simply swapped them over by accident. Might be worth checking.

Also if my memory serves me correctly the crank sensor is a hall effect trigger and so when the engine spins it generates a small electrical current, if you put an LED test light across the disconnected sensor and spin the engine the LED should flash very quickly. It only works with an LED as the sensor doesn't generate enough current to light a normal bulb.

One more thing, a friend of mine had a fiat tipo that failed to start and it was a loose earth wire onto the ECU, might be worth putting a jump lead from the body to the ECU to make sure its earthed down.

Best of luck, these problems can be a nightmare but in my experience it usually turns out to be something simple.

[bembo449]

Originally Posted by Homersimpson

Just a quick post, not sure I can help but many years ago I put a fiat tipe sedicvalvole engine into a kitcar and couldn't get it to run (complete injection ECU etc.) it turned out that the lambda sensor and crank sensor connections had the same plug on them and I had simply swapped them over by accident. Might be worth checking.

Also if my memory serves me correctly the crank sensor is a hall effect trigger and so when the engine spins it generates a small electrical current, if you put an LED test light across the disconnected sensor and spin the engine the LED should flash very quickly. It only works with an LED as the sensor doesn't generate enough current to light a normal bulb.

One more thing, a friend of mine had a fiat tipo that failed to start and it was a loose earth wire onto the ECU, might be worth putting a jump lead from the body to the ECU to make sure its earthed down.

Best of luck, these problems can be a nightmare but in my experience it usually turns out to be something simple.

thanks for the info , i hope it is a simple solution , time will tell

[.:ian:.]

On the TS the lambda sensor has a totally different connector to the crank sensor, however there are 3 connectors on the left hand side by the engine tie rod, these are interchangable, and not consistently coloured: http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...necter-p1.html (crank sensor conecter p1)

Might be worth checking the wire colours match.

[bembo449]

Originally Posted by .:ian:.

On the TS the lambda sensor has a totally different connector to the crank sensor, however there are 3 connectors on the left hand side by the engine tie rod, these are interchangable, and not consistently coloured: http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...necter-p1.html (crank sensor conecter p1)

Might be worth checking the wire colours match.

i'll check into all suggestions mate , thanks

[bembo449]

just read that link Ian , very interesting read ! guna have a real good look at it in the morning and see if it all connects as it should ? or maybe swap a few round in a pot luck styleee ! lol

[alf22]

Might sound daft but does the ecu match,if this car is on the change over year,
i changed my engine on a v40 a a couple of years back 99 model the doner car was a 99 but classed as a phase 1.5 a couple of small elecrical changes but enough for the car not to fire up,i had to get another ecu and get it linked to the car.

[bembo449]

Originally Posted by alf22

Might sound daft but does the ecu match,if this car is on the change over year,
i changed my engine on a v40 a a couple of years back 99 model the doner car was a 99 but classed as a phase 1.5 a couple of small elecrical changes but enough for the car not to fire up,i had to get another ecu and get it linked to the car.

i wont right anything off bud , so all suggestions are welcome ! guna have quite a list to go through ! lol

[bembo449]

right , ive tried swapping the conectors on the lft hand side of the plenium , no joy ! i notice there is no earth wire on or near the coil pack rail . i'm sure there should be one right ?? there isnt a spare wire kicking about either !

[.:ian:.]

Originally Posted by bembo449

right , ive tried swapping the conectors on the lft hand side of the plenium , no joy ! i notice there is no earth wire on or near the coil pack rail . i'm sure there should be one right ?? there isnt a spare wire kicking about either !

Not on the alloy topped engines (well there isnt on mine, and that works ok!) The CF2s have plastic covers so need an ground wire.

[bembo449]

its suppose to be like that , good ! one less thing to worry about . is the ECU in the passemger footwell ? want to check the earth to it