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Old 05-02-11
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gtv v6 cambelt change

My gtv is off the road for a while so i thought i would tackle a cambelt and water pump change. There seems to be loads of different tools needed to do the job.I understand the cam lock tools are important but as for the rest can these be fabricated up.Want to here off someone who has done a diy cambelt change THANKS SHAUN.
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  #2 (Post Link)  
Old 05-02-11
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Don't even think about it without the camlocks.. The rest can be improvised but it's a hell of a lot easier with the right gear.
Alfaholics sell the tools..
Will pay for itself on the first change and after that you're quids in..
Depends on how long you're keeping the car..
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Old 05-02-11
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I changed the belts on my v6 last year and i am getting ready to do another v6 at the moment, If you are doing the belt change you may as well change the sparkplugs at the same time and obviously new rocker gaskets & plug seals, I changed the waterpump on the last car but with the GTV they should have the metal impellor waterpump fitted so unless it is a real high mileage one you may not need to do it, I got all of my tools from wwwtotallyalfa.co.uk
the tools are all on there, cam locks (also get the longer bolts for holding these down), tensioner adjuster, you may want the crankshaft locking tool and also you need a large socket for undoing the cranshaft pulley i am sure someone will be on here and tell you what size it is otherwise i will check mine for you, if you have the luxury of an air compressor get a impact driver as the nut is done up very tight!! also i invested £10.00 in a pair of the special pliers for removoing the clips on the inlet rubbers, The first time around i removed all of the chrome inlets as i wanted to clean them inside and out but you may only need to loosen a couple of the inlets to get the rear plenium chamber off. YOU will need a nice extension and allen key sockets for this job too, also i would recommend one of those long flexible magnet tools just in can you drop anything. I have a photocopied four page v6 cambelt change guide which i can post to you if you need one i got a few copied this week. It is not a 5 min job believe me but it is rewarding to be able to do one. GOOD LUCK
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Old 05-02-11
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Originally Posted by TOPKIT View Post
I changed the belts on my v6 last year and i am getting ready to do another v6 at the moment, If you are doing the belt change you may as well change the sparkplugs at the same time and obviously new rocker gaskets & plug seals, I changed the waterpump on the last car but with the GTV they should have the metal impellor waterpump fitted so unless it is a real high mileage one you may not need to do it, I got all of my tools from wwwtotallyalfa.co.uk
the tools are all on there, cam locks (also get the longer bolts for holding these down), tensioner adjuster, you may want the crankshaft locking tool and also you need a large socket for undoing the cranshaft pulley i am sure someone will be on here and tell you what size it is otherwise i will check mine for you, if you have the luxury of an air compressor get a impact driver as the nut is done up very tight!! also i invested £10.00 in a pair of the special pliers for removoing the clips on the inlet rubbers, The first time around i removed all of the chrome inlets as i wanted to clean them inside and out but you may only need to loosen a couple of the inlets to get the rear plenium chamber off. YOU will need a nice extension and allen key sockets for this job too, also i would recommend one of those long flexible magnet tools just in can you drop anything. I have a photocopied four page v6 cambelt change guide which i can post to you if you need one i got a few copied this week. It is not a 5 min job believe me but it is rewarding to be able to do one. GOOD LUCK

Aftermarket Tools for your Alfa Romeo TwinSpark, JTS, JTD, V6 and Twin Cam Engines :: TotallyAlfa

Crankshaft nut is 41mm, I actually used an 1" 5/8ths.

If you don't have air use a cordless impact gun, I've just bought 1 from Machine Mart, 20% no VAT sale ends today.

Clive
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Old 05-02-11
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Originally Posted by CG Trading View Post
Aftermarket Tools for your Alfa Romeo TwinSpark, JTS, JTD, V6 and Twin Cam Engines :: TotallyAlfa

Crankshaft nut is 41mm, I actually used an 1" 5/8ths.

If you don't have air use a cordless impact gun, I've just bought 1 from Machine Mart, 20% no VAT sale ends today.

Clive
Are they any good ?? is that the Ryobi impact driver??

Last edited by seadart; 05-02-11 at 10:50.
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Old 05-02-11
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C G iscorrect the socket that you need is a 41mm i just checked mine.
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Old 05-02-11
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i've used one...they are pretty good! gonna get one for myself.
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Old 05-02-11
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Originally Posted by seadart View Post
Are they any good ?? is that the Ryobi impact driver??
Clarke CIR24.

Clarke CIR24 - 24V Cordless Impact Wrench - Machine Mart

Clive
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Old 06-02-11
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Thanks for the replies.Topkit when you say you might need a crank locking tool does that mean it is easy too fab one up? My car has done 85000 miles how long do water pumps tend to last.I have a air impact gun so i should be ok there .Time is not an issue i can work on it in my garage in the evenings so no excuses i had better order the parts.Any other tips on the job would be welcomed.Also is the guide on alfa workshops good to use.
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  #10 (Post Link)  
Old 06-02-11
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Previous thread by ChrisH: DIY cambelt change on a V6?

whilst searching the posts of a former owner of Cup 93, that I've recently bought, I came across this:

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...nge-on-v6.html (DIY Cambelt change on V6?)

Give it a read as it will answer most, if not all, of your questions.

Clive
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  #11 (Post Link)  
Old 06-02-11
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The alfa workshop guide gives you the basics pm me with your address and i will send you a copy of the guide with torque settings that i have (clive yours will be in the post this week i have a pile of them on the coffee table now- i did a few photocopies) I have a v6 apart at the moment i started it yesterday i had it completely stripped down in just under 2 hours and i wasn't rushing! if you are careful you wont need to undo the chrome manifolds which will save you a bit of time.
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Old 14-02-11
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Not Happy Changed my Clarke Impact Wrench

Originally Posted by CG Trading View Post

I've just 'upgraded' to:

Clarke CIR450 24V High Torque Cordless Impact Wrench - Machine Mart

because the smaller one wasn't even up to undoing my wheel bolts!

This one's over twice as powerful but costs £40 more & only has 1 battery.

Clive
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Old 15-02-11
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The crank nut will be tough as unless you are on a proper ramp you will need to use an socket extension bar to get your pull bar to clear the wheel arch. People normally support the extension bar from underneath so you get rotation on the nut without any bending otherwise the socket will slip off. You will probably need a 3/4 socket extension and a strong pull bar , then the longest scaffold pole you can find to slip over the pull bar. Then a friend in the car with it in gear an foot hard on the brakes. Hopefully it has been cracked before and not put back on as tight. Otherwise it can put up a bit of a fight. easier with a big ramp as you dont need the extension bar and you can wrench from underneath. Not sure whether a DIY or normal workshop impact wrench will be up to the job, could be wrong but I have reciently used some pretty powerfull air impact wrenches up to 2000Nm on 50mm bolts in work and we ended up using a very long pull bar instead as constant torque seemed better than hammer torque. Happy to be told otherwise though.

This isnt a job for the faint hearted, its not as easy as an old ford. Unless you really want to do this and are fully tooled up, I would say cost up the option of getting a specialist or autolusso to do it, they have all the tricks and experience to do it quicker.

DIY it will take you 2 days. The belt and tensioner kits are not cheap, combine the cost of unique tools , so when you work out the labour cost you may think it isnt worth the hassle compared to a garage. My shed it full of bought tools Ive only used once. Not putting you off, it is achievable as I have done it and just done a flywheel and clutch change also with my mate ( mechanic) using his full facilities, but for me for one will think twice about doing it again, not sure its worth the sanity to labour cost.
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  #14 (Post Link)  
Old 15-02-11
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Hard nut to crack

Originally Posted by john_C View Post
The crank nut will be tough as unless you are on a proper ramp you will need to use an socket extension bar to get your pull bar to clear the wheel arch. People normally support the extension bar from underneath so you get rotation on the nut without any bending otherwise the socket will slip off. You will probably need a 3/4 socket extension and a strong pull bar , then the longest scaffold pole you can find to slip over the pull bar. Then a friend in the car with it in gear an foot hard on the brakes. Hopefully it has been cracked before and not put back on as tight. Otherwise it can put up a bit of a fight. easier with a big ramp as you dont need the extension bar and you can wrench from underneath. Not sure whether a DIY or normal workshop impact wrench will be up to the job, could be wrong but I have reciently used some pretty powerfull air impact wrenches up to 2000Nm on 50mm bolts in work and we ended up using a very long pull bar instead as constant torque seemed better than hammer torque. Happy to be told otherwise though.

This isnt a job for the faint hearted, its not as easy as an old ford. Unless you really want to do this and are fully tooled up, I would say cost up the option of getting a specialist or autolusso to do it, they have all the tricks and experience to do it quicker.

DIY it will take you 2 days. The belt and tensioner kits are not cheap, combine the cost of unique tools , so when you work out the labour cost you may think it isnt worth the hassle compared to a garage. My shed it full of bought tools Ive only used once. Not putting you off, it is achievable as I have done it and just done a flywheel and clutch change also with my mate ( mechanic) using his full facilities, but for me for one will think twice about doing it again, not sure its worth the sanity to labour cost.
I have to agree with all the above other than the crankshaft nut.

I haven't tried my new Clarke impact wrench as I'd already borrowed an expensive Snap On one which undid it with ease.

Clive
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Old 15-02-11
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Originally Posted by john_C View Post
The crank nut will be tough as unless you are on a proper ramp you will need to use an socket extension bar to get your pull bar to clear the wheel arch. People normally support the extension bar from underneath so you get rotation on the nut without any bending otherwise the socket will slip off. You will probably need a 3/4 socket extension and a strong pull bar , then the longest scaffold pole you can find to slip over the pull bar. Then a friend in the car with it in gear an foot hard on the brakes. Hopefully it has been cracked before and not put back on as tight. Otherwise it can put up a bit of a fight. easier with a big ramp as you dont need the extension bar and you can wrench from underneath. Not sure whether a DIY or normal workshop impact wrench will be up to the job, could be wrong but I have reciently used some pretty powerfull air impact wrenches up to 2000Nm on 50mm bolts in work and we ended up using a very long pull bar instead as constant torque seemed better than hammer torque. Happy to be told otherwise though.

This isnt a job for the faint hearted, its not as easy as an old ford. Unless you really want to do this and are fully tooled up, I would say cost up the option of getting a specialist or autolusso to do it, they have all the tricks and experience to do it quicker.

DIY it will take you 2 days. The belt and tensioner kits are not cheap, combine the cost of unique tools , so when you work out the labour cost you may think it isnt worth the hassle compared to a garage. My shed it full of bought tools Ive only used once. Not putting you off, it is achievable as I have done it and just done a flywheel and clutch change also with my mate ( mechanic) using his full facilities, but for me for one will think twice about doing it again, not sure its worth the sanity to labour cost.


The problem with holding the car on the brakes whilst undoing the crank pulley is that you are putting all of the load through the transmission and differential.


The standard diff is known to be a weak point.
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Old 16-02-11
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Originally Posted by john_C View Post
The crank nut will be tough as unless you are on a proper ramp you will need to use an socket extension bar to get your pull bar to clear the wheel arch. People normally support the extension bar from underneath so you get rotation on the nut without any bending otherwise the socket will slip off. You will probably need a 3/4 socket extension and a strong pull bar , then the longest scaffold pole you can find to slip over the pull bar. Then a friend in the car with it in gear an foot hard on the brakes. Hopefully it has been cracked before and not put back on as tight. Otherwise it can put up a bit of a fight. easier with a big ramp as you dont need the extension bar and you can wrench from underneath. Not sure whether a DIY or normal workshop impact wrench will be up to the job, could be wrong but I have reciently used some pretty powerfull air impact wrenches up to 2000Nm on 50mm bolts in work and we ended up using a very long pull bar instead as constant torque seemed better than hammer torque. Happy to be told otherwise though.

This isnt a job for the faint hearted, its not as easy as an old ford. Unless you really want to do this and are fully tooled up, I would say cost up the option of getting a specialist or autolusso to do it, they have all the tricks and experience to do it quicker.

DIY it will take you 2 days. The belt and tensioner kits are not cheap, combine the cost of unique tools , so when you work out the labour cost you may think it isnt worth the hassle compared to a garage. My shed it full of bought tools Ive only used once. Not putting you off, it is achievable as I have done it and just done a flywheel and clutch change also with my mate ( mechanic) using his full facilities, but for me for one will think twice about doing it again, not sure its worth the sanity to labour cost.
Hmmmm, this is indeed a challenge. For once, buying tools you don't really need is one of the few fun things left to do for mid-aged family man. Then spending a couple of days in the garage, listening to music, drinking a few beers and smoke a few cigarettes (and perhaps also actually try to change the cam belt) completes the picture...

Seriously - The normal cost for changing the cam belt in Sweden is close to 1000 GBP. Buying the parts, including the special tools needed is half that price (if you have them shipped from UK that is - spares and tools, especially for Alfa, are so expensive in Sweden). I use my GTV only in the summer so the car is in the garage during winter which gives me plenty of time to figure out the cam belt change. I have still one year left until its time, but I have started to gather as much info as possible. Forums like this, where there are so many competent people willing to share information and experiences are invaluable. And who knows, if I succeed with the cam belt operation on my GTV perhaps I can justify changing my BMW family car for a 3.0 166...

/Olle
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Old 16-02-11
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Boxing

Originally Posted by Olle D View Post
Hmmmm, this is indeed a challenge. For once, buying tools you don't really need is one of the few fun things left to do for mid-aged family man.

/Olle
That did make me smile. Its that middle age refusal to be forced to spend all your wages and time on the wife, kids ,house and the family people carrier. Its a conversation I have with one of my best friend every week. Conclusion - I buy stuff I dont really need for the alfa he buys stuff he doesnt reaaly need for his VW van........ One of the few sanctuaries left. When I look into the office car park and see the really mundane cars I often wonder, what do they do for sanity or is it just lost the fight.
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Old 16-02-11
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Not Happy Clarke Impact Wrenches

Originally Posted by CG Trading View Post
I've just 'upgraded' to:

Clarke CIR450 24V High Torque Cordless Impact Wrench - Machine Mart

because the smaller one wasn't even up to undoing my wheel bolts!

This one's over twice as powerful but costs £40 more & only has 1 battery.

Clive
Originally Posted by CG Trading View Post
I haven't tried my new Clarke impact wrench as I'd already borrowed an expensive Snap On one which undid it with ease.

Clive
I wish I'd never bothered

The more powerful wrench also couldn't undo some wheelnuts/bolts!

It's supposed to be good for 450NMs, approx 330 ft/lbs. To check I torqued some wheel bolts to 210 NMs or 155 ft/lbs & it still wouldn't undo them. I then put my pal's Snap On wrench on which undid them with ease.

So the new wrench is being returned to Machine Mart & I'm having the 'old' one, CIR24, back to use for fitting wheels, after 1st loosening with an old fashioned wheel wrench/bar, as it's not only £40 cheaper but also comes with 4 impact sockets & a spare battery.

Sorry if anyone else bought 1 on my recommendation but I was also led to believe they were good from a previous poster.

Clive
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Old 16-02-11
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Trouble is wheel bolts and crank nuts get corroded. So a crank nut may be tightened to 200ft/lb or whatever but a few years later it will need 400-500 ft/lb to crack the nut due to surface corrosion etc. Once the nut is cracked happy days.
I think this is the problem on hammer tools. The one we used last week was a powerfull air one up to 900ft/lb but you could easily shear or strip a bolt a bolt using it to quicken fit up but ideally should only be used for disassembly and smaller one for re-assembly.
The big air gun didnt touch my crank nut, but that could also be due to take up in the crank, transmission etc, you loose a massive ammount of power as they only hammer a fraction of a degree a time. The nut was also dry and rusty. 17.5 stone welshboy and a scaff pole did it though.
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Old 16-02-11
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Useless impact wrenches

Originally Posted by john_C View Post
Trouble is wheel bolts and crank nuts get corroded. So a crank nut may be tightened to 200ft/lb or whatever but a few years later it will need 400-500 ft/lb to crack the nut due to surface corrosion etc. Once the nut is cracked happy days.
I think this is the problem on hammer tools. The one we used last week was a powerfull air one up to 900ft/lb but you could easily shear or strip a bolt a bolt using it to quicken fit up but ideally should only be used for disassembly and smaller one for re-assembly.
The big air gun didnt touch my crank nut, but that could also be due to take up in the crank, transmission etc, you loose a massive ammount of power as they only hammer a fraction of a degree a time. The nut was also dry and rusty. 17.5 stone welshboy and a scaff pole did it though.

My point about the Clarke wrenches is that even after I had 'cracked' the wheel bolt & then re tightened to 200 NM neither of them, not even the more powerful 450NM model, could undo the fresh/uncorroded wheel bolt but the Snap On one could easily.

So if you've got to use a breaker bar or wheel wrench to start with then you may as well use a cordless drill with an attachment to spin on & off the bolts/nuts.

Clive
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Old 16-02-11
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On my GTV when I got it the wheel bolts were so tight that I snapped a 1/2" socket extension whilst trying to undo them.

My brothers laser cigarette lighter powered impact wrench undid them though. As well as undoing the crank bolt on my Puma.
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Old 27-02-11
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Originally Posted by willi View Post
My gtv is off the road for a while so i thought i would tackle a cambelt and water pump change. There seems to be loads of different tools needed to do the job.I understand the cam lock tools are important but as for the rest can these be fabricated up.Want to here off someone who has done a diy cambelt change THANKS SHAUN.
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/motor...-cam-belt.html
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