Ignition switched live / Battery Drain

[A D Diagnostics]

After a post by another member on my other thread I did some investigating of the live feeds to the stereo in my car, as it has been suggested that there is no switched live only constant power to the stereo.

I had a look in the GTV CD manual and the 'Functional Description' states there is a constant live for memory on fuse F2 and a key operated supply for 'operation of set' on fuse 15 upto chassis number blank

So I started pulling fuses. On my car a 2001 phase 2 V6 the fuse that kills the stereo is the interior light one, top of the right column rated 20amps. It also controls central locking, so unfortunately I will need to manually lock the doors.

I intend to pull this and then leave the car for a few days and see if it solves the battery drain.

If it does I will need to find a genuine switched live to supply the stereo.

Any ideas if there is one behind the centre console I can tap into??


Cheers
MC

[Nige005]

There was an ongoing Thread about this last year, seem to think someone may have found one but can't be sure. A Search and a trawl may help.

I know that someone said that the cigar lighter supply was switched, might be on some cars but certainly not on my P1. Perhaps worth a look on yours, a quick and easy solution if yours is switched.

[btmaldon]

This is how I got around it.

The yellow wire from the stereo needs to be on constant live as that holds the memory. The red wire from the stereo I ran to the cigarette lighter as this is only live when the ignition is on.

[A D Diagnostics]

Originally Posted by Nige005

I know that someone said that the cigar lighter supply was switched, might be on some cars but certainly not on my P1. Perhaps worth a look on yours, a quick and easy solution if yours is switched.

Originally Posted by btmaldon

This is how I got around it.

The yellow wire from the stereo needs to be on constant live as that holds the memory. The red wire from the stereo I ran to the cigarette lighter as this is only live when the ignition is on.

After some investigation (and despite wiring diagram to the contrary) my Cigar lighter is a switched live so will be taking a spur off that for my stereo. when it stops snowing!

Cheers
MC

[Nige005]

Originally Posted by misterchase

After some investigation (and despite wiring diagram to the contrary) my Cigar lighter is a switched live so will be taking a spur off that for my stereo. when it stops snowing!

Cheers
MC

That's a lucky break MC.

There are downsides to the switched cigar lighter though. On my unswitched one I can use, for instance, a Solar Charger, Quick Battery Boost if required and the satnav will work with the ignition off !

[Donmeado]

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...e-lighter.html (Radio - switching with ignition by tapping into cigarette lighter)

[Chris155]

on a 156....


The power feeds from the alfa wiring loom are different to the iso standard. If you have an aftermarket head unit this means that without modification the radio does not switch off when you turn the ignition off.

Swapping the switched live with the perm live will not work as you'll loose all you station presets etc - Alfa use a unused terminal in the iso connector for the permament live.

In the pics the yellow wire is the permament live and red is the switched live. (black is -ive)

This is the ISO standard way of wiring the plug:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...o/DSC03238.jpg

You need to change the swap the switched live (red) with the permament live (yellow), then use the unused connection above where the yellow wire was for the permamnet live. The permament live on the ALFA HARNESS IN THE CAR is orange.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...o/DSC03239.jpg

[cedarville1965]

Thanks Chris, I was going to sort this out next week but now you've done all the hard work for me....

[Chris155]

[SpiderMJ]

Originally Posted by Chris155

The power feeds from the alfa wiring loom are different to the iso standard. If you have an aftermarket head unit this means that without modification the radio does not switch off when you turn the ignition off.

Swapping the switched live with the perm live will not work as you'll loose all you station presets etc - Alfa use a unused terminal in the iso connector for the permament live.

In the pics the yellow wire is the permament live and red is the switched live. (black is -ive)

This is the ISO standard way of wiring the plug:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...o/DSC03238.jpg

You need to change the swap the switched live (red) with the permament live (yellow), then use the unused connection above where the yellow wire was for the permamnet live. The permament live on the ALFA HARNESS IN THE CAR is orange.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...o/DSC03239.jpg

Afraid this does not work on my car. There really is no switched live at all on my alfa iso connector. My car is a PH2 spider with the radio cassete standard unit.
Where you have put the red wire there is actually no connection at all on the alfa iso connector.
As an alternative I used the lumination wire (turns on with sidelights or main lights) to switch the unit on or off.
Can you advise how many connections were on the alfa iso connector on yours. Mine has just 5 connections. maybe yours has 6 or more for a different stereo type? Also what colour was the ignition switched live wire on your one?

[GeorgeQ]

Sorry to butt in here and I might be going off at a tangent, but the problem seems to stem from Alfa's not having an accessory position on the ignition. This means that the radio will not work when the key is off. I went with the switched live for my radio but it was a pain in the **** when parked waiting for the missus. What I eventually did was take a branch from the permanent live (yellow) and ran it to a discrete round rocker switch that I mounted on the dash, then back to the switced live on the radio. OK the radio could be left on permanently but the volume I use somebody would notice.
George.

[A D Diagnostics]

cheers
MC

[SpiderMJ]

Ah found what I need I think

>>> The problem

Normally, the ISO standard requires there to be a +12V permanent feed (pin 4), and a 12V switched one (pin 7). However, on the Alfa's fitted with a Clarion CD unit (like mine was) both of these wires are +12V permanent.

>>> The solution

If you take the trim off in the passenger footwell (where the switch for the airbag is) you can get to the wires behind the radio. You should find a white connector which has another connector plugged into it (labelled Radio Clarion in my case) which has wires looping back into itself. It appears that the purpose of this connector is to allow the ISO radio connections to be easily reconfigured depending upon which radio the car is fitted with.

If you unplug the "Radio Clarion" connector, you will find that you can then open the connector up to allow the pins to be moved around easily. Looking at the connector in the car (i.e. the one you've just unplugged the Radio Clarion one from) the right hand pin goes off to pin 7 of the ISO connector (the one that should be +12V switched according to the ISO standard), the centre pin is +12V permanent, and the left hand pin is +12V switched. On the Radio Clarion connector, there is a loop of wire which goes from the centre pin to the right hand pin - i.e. connecting pin 7 to +12V permanent. If you click open the Radio Clarion connector, you can easily move the centre pin to the vacant slot on the left, thus connecting pin 4 to +12V switched. You then have the standard ISO radio connection which will switch with the ignition.

Bear in mind if you do this that, on some radios, you will then not be able to turn it on unless the full ignition is turned on (there's no ACC position on Alfas).

Hope this helps! ... and thank you to Donmeado for his original pointers.

gonna have a bash at the weekend.

[kakahara]

Originally Posted by SpiderMJ

Ah found what I need I think



gonna have a bash at the weekend.

Did you by any chance get this sorted? I have/did have the Clarion Cassette/CD changer system as well and I'm trying to identify battery drains at the moment, as well as make the new stereo into a "switched live" system; or off when the car is.

I can't seem to find any white connector labelled Clarion. I have identified 3 however:
1: The ISO connector
2: White block with 4 wires connected to another white block with 4 wires (2 orange and 2 blue)
3: White block connector with over 7 wires (thin)

As well as a green connecting block also.
This post: http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...ml#post2679412 (Radio - switching with ignition by tapping into cigarette lighter) probably explains the wires better then I have.

Now I also read that someone changed over the red and yellow wires, but I can only find those on the ISO connector, is that right?

If you did get it sorted, any tips please? or anyone else #

Cheers.

[jus]

Originally Posted by A D Diagnostics

...the fuse that kills the stereo is the interior light one, top of the right column rated 20amps. It also controls central locking, so unfortunately I will need to manually lock the doors.

I intend to pull this and then leave the car for a few days and see if it solves the battery drain.

...

I've tried this for a couple of weeks - no battery drain. Its interesting that this fuse is related to the items that many people seem to think are the possible cause of the battery drain (stereo, aerial, interior lights - and of course if the auto locking is disabled then the immob is also not activated ...). To be honest there is so much info (and conflicts) in this thread that I am actually going to do abit of diagnosis of my own I think, with a simple 12V tester. Or have you managed to sort a solution?

[Alfa-Red]

Originally Posted by jus

I've tried this for a couple of weeks - no battery drain. Its interesting that this fuse is related to the items that many people seem to think are the possible cause of the battery drain (stereo, aerial, interior lights - and of course if the auto locking is disabled then the immob is also not activated ...). To be honest there is so much info (and conflicts) in this thread that I am actually going to do abit of diagnosis of my own I think, with a simple 12V tester. Or have you managed to sort a solution?

old thread mate, but the ignition live coming from the ignition barrel is the easiest and safest. orange wire i do beleive, was on my stilo and 147 anyway

[Mitch166]

Can I just ask, why does having a permanant live to the head unit drain the battery? I assume the unit gets physically switched off?

[SpiderMJ]

Although you can physically switch off your head unit many actually go into a standby mode and not fully off when you do this. Thus they drain your battery over a longer period of time - this is called a parasitic drain.

By the way I never did find the white 'radio clarion' connector mentioned above, although I admit I have not spent a huge amount of time on it. I think varying car phases, model and package options will determine what wiring there is on the loom in your specific car.

I will look into connecting ignition switched live on mine when I get the chance in summer time, for now I persevere using the illumination switch to turn on my stereo.

[jus]

Originally Posted by SpiderMJ

... By the way I never did find the white 'radio clarion' connector mentioned above, ....

I think by "white radio clarion" connector he just meant the connect attached to whatever CD/radio/cass unit you have maybe?

[jus]

Originally Posted by Chris155

on a 156....

This is the ISO standard way of wiring the plug:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...o/DSC03238.jpg

You need to change the swap the switched live (red) with the permament live (yellow), then use the unused connection above where the yellow wire was for the permamnet live. The permament live on the ALFA HARNESS IN THE CAR is orange.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...o/DSC03239.jpg

Could you take a gander at my images please. I think my GTV is wired the same way as a 156? Is the unused connection that you have mentioned in the harness a switched live from the ignition? Because I can't belive it isn't there somewhere !

[SpiderMJ]

Originally Posted by jus

I think by "white radio clarion" connector he just meant the connect attached to whatever CD/radio/cass unit you have maybe?

No hes referring to another connector in there somewhere, the standard ISO that was plugged into the OE head unit has no switched live at all on my car.

[Goudy]

I've just sorted my battery drain problem on my P2 Spider.
It was the head unit and the permanent live, it was draining 0.48 of an amp with the head unit off, but disconnect the head unit altogether and it dropped to 0.03.

I just disconnected the red wire from the loom to the head unit and ran one from the head units red wire to the orange wire found under the centre console next the the gear lever, this is switched from the ignition.
If you're worried you can pop an inline fuse into the new bit of wire, or like me, any old bit of wire, twist it to the other and hold it together with chewing gum.

The orange wire is plugged into the plastic connector found down there and runs the fag lighter and mirror adjuster, but try not to disturb the connector, it's pretty fragile.

[jus]

Originally Posted by Goudy

...The orange wire is plugged into the plastic connector found down there and runs the fag lighter and mirror adjuster, but try not to disturb the connector, it's pretty fragile.

Awesome bit of feedback mate. Where exactly is the connector/orange cable. With my stereo removed I can see a buncha wires taped together that go towards the lighter socket - reckon its in there? I've seen orange cables mentioned loads of times in different thread discussing ignition switching. So I'm going to see if there is one in the connector that my steero is plugged into. Cos I think there are more cables goin in to the block from the car then there are coming out of my stereo - if that makes sense. If you think about it there has to be one there more convenient then messing around seraching for an orange cable elsewhere ..? :lol

[Goudy]

What's happened is that the ****ty stereo that Alfa fitted from new didn't draw power when turned off, so the live, red wire behind the head unit in the cars loom is live all the time, no matter what the ignition is doing.

A modern head unit will draw power even when switched off by it's power button, so it needs a switched live, ie one that's live only when the ignition is switched on (to power the unit) and a permanent live, one that's on no matter what you do with the key (to store radio channels), this one draws very little power compared to the other live wire.

What you'll find is that someone has connected the cars red, live all the time wire in the loom behind the head unit, to the wire on the head unit that only needs power when the head unit is switched on, this draws 0.40 amps and flattens the battery over a few days.
I found that the wire that needs power all the time to store the stations was ok.

So what you need to do is..............

Flip out the gear lever shroud, use a blunt screwdriver on the front edge to prize it forward and up, then one side, forward and up so it pops the lugs out of their holes, under it, to the left is a multi connector, connecting up about 10 wires.
This connector runs under the centre console and powers the ciggie ligther and mirror adjustment switches.

One of the wires that run through the connector is orange (it's thicker than most of the others), this is the switched live, ie powers on and off with the ignition key.

Once you find this, disconnect the red wire from the head unit to the loom, tape up the loom (car) end of this wire, you don't need it.

Connect the power lead from the head unit (the wire you disconnected but didn't tape up), it's usually red (if you have the head unit instructions, it will be called "switched live"), to the orange wire you found running through the multi connector under the gear lever shroud.

If you plug the head unit back in, it should now only work with the ignition turn on.
If you haven't disconnected any other wires to the head unit, it should save the stations when you switch off the ignition.
If it doesn't, there should be another wire from the head unit (usually yellow) this needs power all the time, connect this to the cars red wire you taped up earlier, but you'll ptobably not need to do this if the rest of the head units wires are ok.

Note, try not to pull at the multi connector to much, as it's fragile.

[Goudy]

What's happened is that the ****ty stereo that Alfa fitted from new didn't draw power when turned off, so the live, red wire behind the head unit in the cars loom is live all the time, no matter what the ignition is doing.

A modern head unit will draw power even when switched off by it's power button, so it needs a switched live, ie one that's live only when the ignition is switched on (to power the unit) and a permanent live, one that's on no matter what you do with the key (to store radio channels), this one draws very little power compared to the other live wire.

What you'll find is that someone has connected the cars red, live all the time wire in the loom behind the head unit, to the wire on the head unit that only needs power when the head unit is switched on, this draws 0.40 amps and flattens the battery over a few days.
I found that the wire that needs power all the time to store the stations was ok.

So what you need to do is..............

Flip out the gear lever shroud, use a blunt screwdriver on the front edge to prize it forward and up, then one side, forward and up so it pops the lugs out of their holes, under it, to the left is a multi connector, connecting up about 10 wires.
This connector runs under the centre console and powers the ciggie ligther and mirror adjustment switches.

One of the wires that run through the connector is orange (it's thicker than most of the others), this is the switched live, ie powers on and off with the ignition key.

Once you find this, disconnect the red wire from the head unit to the loom, tape up the loom (car) end of this wire, you don't need it.

Connect the power lead from the head unit (the wire you disconnected but didn't tape up), it's usually red (if you have the head unit instructions, it will be called "switched live"), to the orange wire you found running through the multi connector under the gear lever shroud.

If you plug the head unit back in, it should now only work with the ignition turn on.
If you haven't disconnected any other wires to the head unit, it should save the stations when you switch off the ignition.
If it doesn't, there should be another wire from the head unit (usually yellow) this needs power all the time, connect this to the cars red wire you taped up earlier, but you'll ptobably not need to do this if the rest of the head units wires are ok.

Note, try not to pull at the multi connector to much, as it's fragile.