Ignition switched live / Battery Drain

[Goudy]

Am repeating meself meself again again!

[Mitch166]

It's a good post, worth reading twice!!

[jus]

Originally Posted by Goudy

What's happened is .... much, as it's fragile.

wasn't sure which one of your replies to reply to what happened there mate!? With me stereo removed I can see a bunch of cables down in there that head off towards the gear stick area - one of these is orange. So I'll get in there with me 12V tester and see if its the boy I need. I think that there are a lot more wires going into the black connector from the car, than there is coming out of the white connectors that go to the head unit. So one of the wires from the car might be switched live - but I can't work out how to take the connector apart to use my tester in the holes. But my tester is a spike type, so that I can poke it into cables and only make a tiny hole and still get to the copper inside. Some pics attached .. defo some orange wires in there ... and I'll update this thread ASAP. The tester is the best £1 I spent at Cheppo market

[Goudy]

The Red wire I can see in Pic 3 (4714.jeg) that comes out of the white head unit connector, check that with your meter, I bet that's powered with either the ignition on or off!
(if your meter spike will not fit in the connectors little holes, use a straigtened paper clip in there to get a contact off)

If that's so,
Pop the shroud on the gear lever (the dished silver plastic trim around the base of the lever under the head unit slot (slap bang in the middle of pic3), in there you will see the multi connector for the centre console controls.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/5220/orangewire.jpg
See this pic, this is the orange wire, you can see the connector from it to my head units red wire.

Running through that connector is the Orange switched live wire, disconnect the above mention Red wire and run the end of it from the white connector (pic 3 again) to the Orange wire you found under the gear lever shrould, splice it in with a Scotchlock connecter.

Now, the yellow wire I see in Pic 3 coming out of the white head unit connector, put the meter on that , this should be live no matter what.
If it is, just tape up the bare wire you disconnected the red wire from earlier and Bobs your uncle.
If it's not, connect this yellow wire to the other end of the red wire you disconnected.

[Goudy]

BTW, ignore the two thick Red wires to the right of my picture, as I stated before, my connecter was a little fragile and I had to bypass a couple of connections on it.
The earth (black) and switch illumination (yellow/green) went a bit italian and surrendered!

[javars]

This is how I got round it..............maybe a bit overkill. But it gives you the option of still having the radio on without the ignition being on.

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...g-on-here.html (Whats going on here ?)

[jus]

Originally Posted by javars

This is how I got round it..............maybe a bit overkill. But it gives you the option of still having the radio on without the ignition being on.

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...g-on-here.html (Whats going on here ?)

Yeh I saw that. If I have my stereo on with the igntion off my battery wil be dead within minutes. Its sort of why I'm trying to make sure I can't accidentally leave it on when I exit the car (all those quiet bits betwwen tracks and in teh middle of songs have caught me out before . Your solution would work for me, but it still won't help my fogertory

[jus]

Originally Posted by Goudy

The Red wire .... red wire you disconnected.

Awesome notes mate, thanks! At some point I want to get the battery out to give it a good charge up. I've got the sockets to do it .. bl00dy fiddly tho - its so cramped in there!! Do you know of a way I can get better access to the terminal nuts by any chance (or are they bolts..)?

[Goudy]

I've a Spider, the battery is in the cubby hole behind the drivers seat. I pull the seat forward, fold myself in half and sit on the centre console.
It's a bit fiddly getting it through the hole, but you only need a 10mm spanner/socket for the terminals and a 13mm socket with an extention bar to remove the clamp down the front that holds the battery to the floor.

Couple of notes.
Remove the - terminal first, you don't want to be swinging on the + nut and catch the body with the - terminal still attached!
Careful not to catch the spanner on both terminals, it's a no brainer, but it's been done (by me), if you've just charged the battery, there's plenty of gas in it that'll explode.
Clean off the terminals with a wire brush and smear with Vasaline (petrolium jelly) NOT KY jelly, blackcurrant jelly or normal grease!

If you suspect a drain on the battery somewhere, like the head unit in the first post of this thread,
Connect up + terminal only as normal
Set a multimeter to read Amps (important to get this right, so read the meters instructions)
Make sure everything on the cars turned off, lights inside and out, is the door open? it has sill lights, so close the door, alarm, etc
Connect the meter between the - terminal and the - lead (you might trigger the alarm to reset at this point, so have the fob to hand and turn it off) take a reading.
0.02 to 0.04 amps should be about right.
When my head unit was draining because it wasn't on the switched live, I was reading 0.48 amps, but it dropped when I disconnected the head unit, so I knew it was that what was causing a problem.

If you suspect a charge problem (alternator),
Connect the battery up as normal.
Set your meter to DC volts (see meter instructions)
Connect meter to battery, Red to +. Black to -
Take a reading with the engine running (tick over) and no load (lights off, etc)
Somewhere between 13.6 volts and 14.4 volts is normal, if the battery is low it may read lower, but you've just had it out and charged it.

If you suspect the battery has a fault.
You need to take if for what referred to as a "drop test"
I'm suspect if you take it to Halfords or Kwik Fit, it'll fail, I don't know why, but they always seem to! So try a local auto electrican.
A good cheap battery is available from ***** Batteries of Rochdale, the trade on Ebay, I've used them on plenty of cars, ran winches off them etc and never had a problem.

[Goudy]

That should read A l p h a

[jus]

Originally Posted by Goudy

The Red ...you disconnected.

I sorted this using your v helpful instructions - thanks loads for the assist. It's been 2 weeks now and now problemos, touch wood [touches head]

[jus]

Originally Posted by Goudy

I've a Spider....

Thanks for the notes. Still don't know if there is enough give to lower the battery down into the boot to get at the terminals a bit easier. Batter/alternator etc have been tested to death and are all ok. I've also proven its the stereo draining the battery. By the way my interior lights have a secondary timer it would seem, because if the doors aren't closed properly then the lights wil eventually go off after a minute or 2. So there's at least on useful feature in my Alfa electrics

[rabowman]

I have been trying to do the same, I picked up a switched live from the cigarette lighter, but have blown a thermal cut out. Apparantly this can only be reset by an Alfa dealer using on board diagnostics. If anyone knows a cheat on this please let me know.
Tks
Rob

[Goudy]

If you've sorted the stereo out and it's not draining, you've no need to get the battery out, if you want to charge it up, get out there and give the car a caning! 7 or 8 miles will charge up the battery.

Rabowman
What has happened? what's stopped working? Who has diagnosed the problem?

[rabowman]

According to the W/S manual there is a thermal circuit breaker in the switched live side of the cigar lighter. They say in the book this can be reset 5 times before changing. Fault was diagnosed by Buzz Alfa at Brands Hatch (over the phone) and they said it had to be zapped

[Goudy]

From what I know, thermal circuit breakers protect things like electric motors from getting hot (hold you hand over the end of a hoover and it'll overwork the motor until it trips the switch) they usually self reset.

Magnetic circuit breakers need a "zap" to get them to reset
CIRCUIT BREAKER

I've not heard of them on this circuit, I've blown plenty of fuses in the past,(I'm a slow learner and only now pull the fuse while working on a circuit) but never done anything like this, but that doesn't mean there isn't one somewhere that's tripped, but I'd have thought one of the many fuses would have protected this circuit.

Does the manual say where it is? Or how it's reset? Or say take to dealer!!
What's not working? the whole car? or just fag ligther?

You mention ODB, is this how it's reset? You can download plenty of software to connect up to the ECU
Fiat ECU Scanner - Fiat/Alfa/Lancia ECU Reader
UniDiag : UniDiag
These also have forums that may help
You can get a cable quiet cheaply, I think someone on here called Rarebear sells them that's modified to read all the ECU's, ABS and Airbag, but you can do this yourself with a soldering iron.
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...n-v-1-6-a.html (New diagnostic software - FiatECUScan v.1.6)

If you're unsure, start a new post about the fault or try another workshop or auto electrican for advise.

[jus]

Originally Posted by Goudy

If you've sorted the stereo out and it's not draining, you've no need to get the battery out, if you want to charge it up, get out there and give the car a caning! 7 or 8 miles will charge up the battery.?

It was just summat the last recovery person recommended. right then I'll stop fretting about it. I think the lesson here is not to try and use an aftermarket stereo with the engine on ....

[jus]

Originally Posted by jus

It was just summat the last recovery person recommended. right then I'll stop fretting about it. I think the lesson here is not to try and use an aftermarket stereo with the engine on ....

erm I meant off

[Goudy]

I've taken advise on this, unfortunately from a Renault tech, but it should make things as clear as mud!

There are modules that have these magnetic switches, the engine and the interior (renault calls this one something French like "Merde" or "Unite de Commande d'Habitacle")
It does indeed control the interior functions, and can be "tripped", but from what I understand, it protects from an overload from the supply circuit, not from the function (faglighter) circuits, these are protected by fuses.
I believe it should be resetable (have I just made that word up?) but it I'm told take it to Renault (Alfa for you)