Emissions fail - high lambda - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
 
  Home Forums AO Club Member Gallery Classifieds Trade Directory  

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa GTV & 916 Spider

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (Post Link)  
Old 30-07-08
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Yorkshire
Posts: 276

Member car:

alfa #3 - 156 jtd m-jet

Emissions fail - high lambda

Just had my Twinny fail it's MOT on lambda reading. The incompetent garage charged me for the test then said "Uh sorry we don't do emissions here you'll have to take it somewhere else". when asked what they thought it'd be I got the blankest I've ever seen! So much for their advertised free retest.

Do you guys think it's an easy fix. Was thinking cracked/leaking exhaust or lambda sensor. Could the MAF account? It seems to be the route of most other TS problems.

Figures if anyone's interested

FAST IDLE
CO - PASS (0.00%)
HC - PASS (12ppm)
Lambda - FAIL (1.40)

SECOND FAST IDLE
CO - PASS (0.01%)
HC - PASS (8ppm)
Lambda - FAIL (1.49)

A bottle of Forte Gas and a good thrash will be had now but I think that's optimistic.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (Post Link)  
Old 30-07-08
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Yorkshire
Posts: 276

Member car:

alfa #3 - 156 jtd m-jet

Re: Emissions fail - high lambda

been doing a bit of reading around. Is it possible that a leak in the air intake manifold could lead to readings like this?

Also I've been noticing that it starts to run a little rough when the car's warmed up. feels a little sluggish to rev and a slight judder at idle. Is it true that the lambda sensor is not used until the car is up to temp? Would you expect high CO if lambda sensor was shot. Sorry for all the questions, emissions is something I know next to nothing about!

I'm booked in for a diagnostic at a local garage that bills itself as a Bosch specialist so hopefully that will shed some light.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (Post Link)  
Old 30-07-08
Hamster's Avatar
Status: Tentatively treading
AO Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Gloucestershire
Posts: 15,686
Images: 34

Member car:

'06 Citroen C4 Coupe

Re: Emissions fail - high lambda

Well a leak in the intake is never going to be a good thing. I'd get that sorted (if that is a problem you have) first.

I always take my car for a good hour long drive with some spirited sessions to make sure everything is warmed up, breathing well, etc - never ever failed an emissions test

Good luck.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (Post Link)  
Old 30-07-08
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: sussex
Posts: 46

Member car:

spider

Re: Emissions fail - high lambda

universal sensors are about 30 quid so if you are mechanically minded and capable of fitting then fit one go to an mot station and offer the guy a fiver to do an emissions test for you only afterwards get an expensive diag done make sure your exhaust is not blowing first !!!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (Post Link)  
Old 30-07-08
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Yorkshire
Posts: 276

Member car:

alfa #3 - 156 jtd m-jet

Re: Emissions fail - high lambda

Cheers for the responses. I've had the intake problem as long as I've had the car. It's never caused a problem driving that I notice. It was only picked up at the first service at Peak Alfa but Roger reckoned it wasn't worth the considerable expense of fixing if driving wasn't affected. I'd have a crack at DIYing it with a scrappy part but unfortunately my long empty days of studentdom finish on monday and I start as a junior doc, I need the car for work so I won't have much time to get the car to a garage let alone consider DIYing it.

I can't see or hear any noticeable blowing from the exhaust but wondered if a small defect might have some impact.

The local 'Bosch' garage are charging £50 for the diag which I'd rather not pay but I need to get it sorted ASAP if at all possible.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (Post Link)  
Old 31-07-08
Ralf S.'s Avatar
Status: -
AO Gold Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The land that Time forgot
Posts: 11,769
Images: 16

Member car:

Skinny 155v6 ICBM

Re: Emissions fail - high lambda

Aye! Stick a new Lambada on it.

Sorted!


Ralf S.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (Post Link)  
Old 31-07-08
fantom alfa's Avatar
Status: Alfa-less and lost.
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: United Kingdom
County: Warwickshire
Posts: 1,105
Images: 6

Member car:

'01 GTV 3.0V6

Re: Emissions fail - high lambda

I could be completely wrong here, but I thought the MOT test just compares the Lambda value from before the Catalytic convertor to the one from afterwards, so it will report a fail if your cat has failed (or is missing), air is leaking in between the two, either of the probes are failing. You could end up replacing 4 probes and not improving the problem if it is due to a leaking exhaust.
Engine ignores lambdas until it reaches full operating temp - so allow 5mins.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (Post Link)  
Old 01-08-08
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Yorkshire
Posts: 276

Member car:

alfa #3 - 156 jtd m-jet

Re: Emissions fail - high lambda

bit the bullet and got the diag. turns out the lambda sensor is knackered and so is the MAF which was not an original (looks like the previous owner had a bit of an ebay moment).

Getting genuine Bosch replacements and all should be well. The eyewatering part is the price! £420 plus VAT! (£170 for the diagnostics and labour) must take all of 20 mins to change a MAF and lambda! This is why I hate going to mechanics!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (Post Link)  
Old 01-08-08
Nige005's Avatar
Status: Constantly Nagging Lincolnshire Members !
Regional Representative
For Lincolnshire - AOL
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boston, Lincs
Posts: 15,460
Images: 22

Member car:

Alfetta GTV6 & CelicaVVTi

Re: Emissions fail - high lambda

Originally Posted by indiekid View Post
bit the bullet and got the diag. turns out the lambda sensor is knackered and so is the MAF which was not an original (looks like the previous owner had a bit of an ebay moment).

Getting genuine Bosch replacements and all should be well. The eyewatering part is the price! £420 plus VAT! (£170 for the diagnostics and labour) must take all of 20 mins to change a MAF and lambda! This is why I hate going to mechanics!
That sounds horrendous, do you trust the guy doing the job ?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (Post Link)  
Old 01-08-08
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Yorkshire
Posts: 276

Member car:

alfa #3 - 156 jtd m-jet

Re: Emissions fail - high lambda

Never used him before. just moved to new area so don't really know anywhere yet. he sounded ok and he's Bosch approved centre. I believe his diagnosis, it ties in with the symptoms I've been having.The parts he's quoting are roughly what you'd expect i.e. a little bit more than alfaworkshop/shop4parts would charge. (i think about 125 for the MAF and 95 for the lambda).

So I guess he's billing me about 2-3hours labour on top of the diagnostic. I really need the car back on the road by monday so I don't really have much choice
Reply With Quote
  #11 (Post Link)  
Old 01-08-08
Nige005's Avatar
Status: Constantly Nagging Lincolnshire Members !
Regional Representative
For Lincolnshire - AOL
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boston, Lincs
Posts: 15,460
Images: 22

Member car:

Alfetta GTV6 & CelicaVVTi

Re: Emissions fail - high lambda

It just sounded a lot of cash for what appears to be a fairly simple job but if you're stuck I s'pose it will have to be done. It's only money...
Reply With Quote
  #12 (Post Link)  
Old 01-08-08
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Yorkshire
Posts: 276

Member car:

alfa #3 - 156 jtd m-jet

Re: Emissions fail - high lambda

I agree it is alot. He claims to have spent a while on it with the oscilliscope but I would have thought that would be included in the charge for the diagnostic?

I could have had a gamble and done it myself for less than £200 probably but knowing my luck it would have turned out to be something else completely and i'd have wasted money replacing good parts. At least I know it's sorted now...

On the up side if MAF and lambda were both shot I'm bl**dy well expecting it to feel like a new car now! hopefully that will be the silver lining.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (Post Link)  
Old 01-08-08
fantom alfa's Avatar
Status: Alfa-less and lost.
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: United Kingdom
County: Warwickshire
Posts: 1,105
Images: 6

Member car:

'01 GTV 3.0V6

Re: Emissions fail - high lambda

should be very
Reply With Quote
  #14 (Post Link)  
Old 02-08-08
Nige005's Avatar
Status: Constantly Nagging Lincolnshire Members !
Regional Representative
For Lincolnshire - AOL
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boston, Lincs
Posts: 15,460
Images: 22

Member car:

Alfetta GTV6 & CelicaVVTi

Re: Emissions fail - high lambda

Originally Posted by indiekid View Post
I agree it is alot. He claims to have spent a while on it with the oscilliscope but I would have thought that would be included in the charge for the diagnostic?

I could have had a gamble and done it myself for less than £200 probably but knowing my luck it would have turned out to be something else completely and i'd have wasted money replacing good parts. At least I know it's sorted now...

On the up side if MAF and lambda were both shot I'm bl**dy well expecting it to feel like a new car now! hopefully that will be the silver lining.
I agree, the diagnostic bit seemed a bit high really but I s'pose you'll charging more for your diagnosis !

Anyway hope it's done alright and as you say it should feel a whole lot better afterwards, take it around the Moors and Dales and enjoy it !
Reply With Quote
  #15 (Post Link)  
Old 02-08-08
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: United Kingdom
County: Surrey
Posts: 2,805

Member car:

Giulietta 170, GTV. Bo209

Re: Emissions fail - high lambda

High lambda is usually related to exhaust leak. Had this problem on a Peugeot some time ago (not mine!). Was caused by a very small leak at the back box.

See link:-

http://www.petercoopercarrepairs.co.uk/new_page_3.htm excerpt:

If the fault is a high lambda reading, with a high O2 reading but with normal CO and HC readings, the most common cause is post combustion air leaks. A small exhaust system air leak will leak air into the exhaust before any blows can be detected. Only a small volume of clean air introduced into the exhaust will cause a car to fail the MOT test.

Last edited by armoore; 02-08-08 at 12:34.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (Post Link)  
Old 02-03-10
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Kent
Posts: 15

Member car:

brera

My partners GTV JTS has just failed MOT on emissions. Engine light was on and computer analysis reported pre Lampda problem on the right manifold (cylinders 2 and 4). Garage thinks it needs a new cat (1200 pounds plus labour) but this does not gurantee a solution to the problem - is there anyway of getting a clear cut analysis of the problem with no guess work. I don't mind buuying and fitting a new cat but it's a lot of money if it does not work. I would be grateful for any advice.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Alfa GTV & 916 Spider

Tags
emissions, fail, high, lambda

Thread Tools


Recently 'Read'
No History to show

Useful Links
Lost Password?
AO Merchandise
FAQs
Register

External Links
2004 ALFA ROMEO 156...
07 alfa romeo gt...
2009 ALFA ROMEO...
Alfa romeo...
2002 ALFA ROMEO 147...

Alfa Romeo

Recent Image

Alfa 159

View paul.o's images

Search

Forums

Classifieds
   

Gallery

Social Groups
   

Members
   


Did you know..?
Did you know..?
We take privacy seriously, this is why we advise you to check your privacy settings by visiting your profile area and selecting "Profile Privacy".


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 20:00.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733