Problem with rear bushes on my 2.0TS GTV

I stripped the rear suspension last night in order to replace bushes with powerflex and discovered that both the inner and outer lower swing arm bushes are some kind of pivot (rose?) joint rather than static rubber bushes that I expected to see. The outer one has a fair amount of lateral play which is giving me a bit of a clunk.
Is this normal for a 2.0TS to have these or has someone fitted the wrong replacement swinging arm or bush at some point previously?
I have checked the diameter of the new powerflex bushes against the internal diameter of the location on the arm and it looks like they will fit when I get the old bushes/rose joints out but wanted to check that I've got the correct arm fitted to the car?

Confused??

It is a 2001/Y Lusso 2.0TS if that helps???

Any advice would be welcomed.

Thanks in advance

Hi Andrew, I think that someone has fitted the arms from a 3.0 GTV, because they have rose jointed pivots. They are perfectly OK, and some people (Alfaworkshop I think), recommend them as a replacement, because they work better.

Originally Posted by andyalfagtv

Hi Andrew, I think that someone has fitted the arms from a 3.0 GTV, because they have rose jointed pivots. They are perfectly OK, and some people (Alfaworkshop I think), recommend them as a replacement, because they work better.

This is an interesting concept that I have not heard of before. Anyone here done it and if so how does it affect andrewa ?

And is it worth doing, does it actually improve anything ?

The question I have is, can I fit the powerflex bushes into these arms, as the outer swinging arm joint has a fair amount of wear that is causing MOT-failing play and I don't want to have to get alternate arms to fit the new bushes?

Are the rose-joints an identical-in-size upgrade over the solid rubber bushes on the 3.0?

Thanks

I am assuming that they are the rear spring pan arms (about £200 each). If you go to the Alfaworkshop site, they give a description of them.

No, the 3 bush one that takes the bottom shock mount in the middle.

Ah, the straightish one, costing about £90.00 a side. I thought there was only one type to fit all GTV variants, but I could be wrong. I think you may want expert help on this one.

Having now had a closer look it would appear that the outer bush on the spring pan is also a rose joint but inner one is solid rubber. So out of the 7 bushes that should be bushes, 3 are actually rose joints. I presume from this, that the standard rubber bushes are interchangeable with rose joints and also powerflex bushes. If this is the case, I am right in assuming that I can press out the rose joints and replace with powerflex. I know folk say that rose joints are better but both outer joints at wheel hub are worn so I'd really like to replace all with powerflex, if possible. I have access to a small 100 ton hydraulic press which should do the necessary.

However, any further advice on how to remove the offending joints would be appreciated.

Cheers

I believe the arms are the same on the rose-jointed/solid bushed ones, perhaps a bit more difficult to get the rose-jointed bushes out but well worth it in this case as they're worn and you have the powerflex repalcements. My only advice is to make sure all the old rubber bits are removed from the arms and all surfaces are nice and clean before fitting the powerflex replacements. For these trailing arms the powerflex bushes really are superb, mine were fitted 6 years ago and are still totally 100% perfect condition! So my only recommendation is to go for these powerflex upgrades!

The springpan arms are more of an issue though (well for me anyway). I think the rose-jointed ones from the V6 cars (and later JTS cars) are probably the way to go, as these arms take a lot of stress and I myself have had problems with the powerflex replacements, especially the one furthest in on the arm (powerflex code PFR1-713). This bush stands alone on the subframe and seems to take a great deal of the workload. On my car I have had problems with this powerflex bush, so I have decide to give the 'Black' version of the powerflex range a go on this one (termed Black 95 by Powerflex). I'm getting these fitted and will let you know how things go. But if you're springpan rose-jointed bushes are fine, I would stick with them for the time being.

There, I told you someone would help!
As an aside, be careful removing the old rubber bushes. Some people try to burn them out, but the fumes can be quite potent. I would try drilling a hole with a very fine drill, then using a coping saw/keyhole saw to get rid of the bulk. An electric drill with elongated brush cleaner may get rid of the rest, but do wear a mask.

If you knock out the centre of the rose joint you can then carefully hacksaw through the outer bush and tap it out. The centre only knocks out one way incidently. If you look at the photo carefully you can see why and figure out which way to do it. Doing it this way you won't need a press.

Thanks for all of the advice guys, it's very much appreciated. I was a bit worried when I found the mixture of rose joints and solid bushes that I had a non-standard, difficult to deal with setup that would cost lots to put right. Sounds like with a little heat and determination I can get the rose joints out and get powerflex in. I have access to burning equipment and heavy duty press if drill and hacksaw method doesn't work!

I now have the method of attack for the rose joints but what's the best way to deal with other solid ones, the same drill/hacksaw or just press method?

Incidentally, I can't quite make out from the thumbnails which way you are supposed to drive out rose joint centre. I can see from remains of external ring that one end is wider than other but it's not that obvious with the joint still in the swinging arm which way you should drive it out. However, one end of the centre piece is a slightly larger diameter. Do I hit it from the smaller or larger end?

Thanks again.

Andrew

Job finally done after 8 tons of force to remove a couple of the rose-joints and best part of a day on Sunday putting all of it back together.

The bushes were a doddle to insert into the swinging arm, springpan and wishbone but putting the bits back on the car were nowhere as easy.

Purple swinging arm bushes are not a problem but the black ones that are fitted to the springpan are a bugger to get back in as they seem to make the joint a millimeter or more bigger than the slot in the sub-frame. So lots of banging, battering and coppergrease are required to get them back in!

Ride is slightly firmer but not as bad as I had anticipated from what others had said. Certainly cured the clunking and knocking as 3 of the rose-joints were badly worn.

It's in for MOT tomorrow so hopefully I'll get some good news but you never can tell??