Replacing diff with Q2 myself

Hi there, I have eventually ordered and received the Q2 diff from EB Spares late last week and spent the weekend under the car.

I have removed the outer diff casing, split the left drive shaft, removed the driveshaft flanges from the diff casing, and disconnected the top bolt on the right hand suspension and steering arm (allowing maximum movement of the right driveshaft). Unfortunately there is not enough movement to pull the right shaft all the way out off the diff.

Has anyone removed the driveshafts from a V6 before? To me it looks as though I will need to split the right shaft which will be a major pain in the preverbial as the bolts to do so are really hard to reach.

The workshop CD says to simply remove the driveshafts, but doesn't go into detail of how to do it.

Once I get the diff out, it will be a cinch to install the Q2. I'll post a how to with piccies when complete if anyone is interested.

Cheers, Nathan

hey AN. good on you for tackling it yourself. i don't have the necessary tools for the job unfortunately.

sorry, i can't really help out much cos i've never done the work. however, the workshop manual refers to disassembling part of the suspension; i presume this allows more ready-access, and allows the 'intermediate driveshaft' to be removed. does that make sense, and have you done that?

you don't mention the bearings, but i presume you have new bearings to fit to the diff. i only ask cos my local service guys told me you cannot remove the originals and reuse them because of likelihood of damaging them during removal. having mine fitted on 29-30 Oct. can't wait.

does someone have a pdf of this workshop manual ?

i bought mine - for the GT - off fleabay in the UK; more than a .pdf, it's a whole CD worth. but i'm sure a fellow aussie member with one for the GTA would help you out.

Yeah, it was being really difficult organising the repair with Max and I kinda need the car back on the road. Freighting the car up to Sydney is rediculously expensive and organising it was a nightmare. I really don't want anybody down this way touching it as nobody does Alfas here. Then I have the worry of them not doing the job properly (ie: not putting all the bolts back in as this is a major pain in the arse to do). At least this way I know it will be done properly.

I got a CD and it has all versions of the 147 on it. The problem is that the detailing of the proceedure is pretty basic. The first step says to remove the left inner drive shaft (I have done this) and then remove the flanges from the diff housing (also done that). It then says to remove the adjustment shim (done that) and then remove bolts holding the diff housing in place to remove the cover (I have also done that).

That is all that the remove and replace instructions show. I have done all of that. I would have thought that the right drive shaft will need removal also, as this seems to be holding the diff in the housing. I removed the holding bolts on the right suspension to allow maximum travel of the right driveshaft away from the diff. It doesn't come out far enough to release the diff.

What I'm hoping is that someone has pulled the driveshafts or diff out of a V6 alfa and may have a tip on how to release the diff at this point.

If nobody has done it before, then it looks like I will have to somehow pull apart the right driveshaft. This will be no fun, but it will do the job.

Yeah, I got new bearings when I got the Q2. Using the old ones is a bit like reusing spent toilet paper......things could get a little messy.

again, i could be way off cos i've not performed this before.

Originally Posted by AussieNath

What I'm hoping is that someone has pulled the driveshafts or diff out of a V6 alfa and may have a tip on how to release the diff at this point.

if the R-side suspension is taken down, then i presume you can swing/move the R hub out of the way, taking the driveshaft with it. when i read the workshop manual for the V6 GT, it referred to disassembling the suspension.

Yeah, I have partially removed the suspension to give maximum movement to the drive shaft. This also allows me to drop the rotor etc out of the way. It looks like there is a coupling like on the left side that allows you to split the shaft, but from ePER it looks as though there may be a circlip holding the shaft in place. The bolts on the coupling that joins the two shaft halves are also really hard to access, and even if I do slip the shaft, if there is a circlip holding the inner shaft in place, I still won't be able to remove it.

I would expect that the V6 GT would be identical to the GTA? Does your GT manual show a circlip on the inner driveshaft Shiny?

hmm, whilst there is mention of circlips, it appears only relevant to dismantling the driveshafts AFTER their removal. but not relevant to actually removing the driveshafts from the car.

not sure where you're at with the dismantling and visualising how it's designed, but from what i can gather, the setup from left to right goes something like:

L-side driveshaft <> diff <> intermdiate driveshaft <> R-side driveshaft

hence, between the diff and the R-side driveshaft is the intermediate driveshaft. one end of the intermediate driveshaft is connected to the diff and other end to the R-side driveshaft.

to remove the intermediate driveshaft, you first remove the R-side driveshaft, same as you'd remove the L-side driveshaft. once the R-side driveshaft is removed, you can proceed to remove the intermediate driveshaft, which will free up the diff.

to find this info in eLearn, i did a search for 'drive shaft' (title; and searched for 'procedures'). then read about:

'DRIVE SHAFTS AND JOINTS'

'INTERMEDIATE DRIVE SHAFT - R + R WITH R/H DRIVE SHAFT REMOVED'

they appear bolted together, no circlips. hope this helps!

Thanks Shiny, what you're describing is as it appears on the car. This confirms my thoughts on having to unfortunately remove the right side drive shaft (bugger). On the positive it sounds as though there is no retaining circlip preventing the unit from being taken out of the vehicle =)

Hey Nath..quite the undertaking,godo to see.
How about some photos of your bella brutto under the knife

No problem Jozza, I'll snap a couple this afternoon.

Here are a few pics of my biatch atm.....

You can see the teeth that were ripped off the gear inside the original diff. It's these teeth that do all the damage to the diff/gearbox casing and on rare occurance, the gearbox internals. I can't see behind the old diff as it isn't removed yet to see how much damage if any, has been done by the teeth.

The photo of the origninal diff and crown wheel show that I have disconnected the right side flange which holds the driveshaft in place. In these cars the driveshafts are in two parts (an inner and outer). The left inner shaft is only about 200mm long whilst the right inner shaft if more like1200mm. I think I need to remove the right driveshaft now, which is going to be a pain. This will release the diff from its housing.

For those interested, the original diff has two holes on either side (you can see the bottom hole in the photo below. The teeth are spat through these holes and this is when the damage occurs. If you ever lose drive in your car, immediately pull to the side of the road and turn it off. Don't try and catch a gear or test, as this can cause more extensive damage from more teeth being spat through these holes. Should the Q2 diff ever fail, it is a lot less likely to cause further damage as there are 4 holes around the diff (you can see two in the photo below- me holding the Q2) and they are very small. The pieces I pulled out of the casing are larger than the Q2 holes.

Thats impressive stuff.Good photos.It gives a good idea of the work involved.Seems the original diff is flawed by design in more than one way with such large openings.It definately looks like its a tight fit getting it in and out of there.I'm guessing the "inner"shafts were designed for that reason alone - easier access to the diff for dismantling.
Will you need to take particular care when putting it all together again,torquing it all up ?,sealing the housing etc?

Yeah, the CD does give all the torques for the fittings and gives the spec of loctite required for resealing the unit. Pretty straight forward. Because I have taken the suspension and steering off I will get a wheel alignment when complete just to make sure she goes where she's pointed.

Fantastic thread! Please keep updating it as you progress, and LOTS of photos please!!

yeah, great photos AN. i'm not confident to do the work myself, nor have all the required tools. so i admire your efforts.

Originally Posted by jozza

I'm guessing the "inner"shafts were designed for that reason alone - easier access to the diff for dismantling.

part the reason (i presume, cos i'm no mech engineer) for the Intermediate Driveshaft(s) is because the diff is not positioned smack-bang exactly equidistant between the L and R wheels. it is offset to the left. if you simply had a long R-side driveshaft and short L-side driveshaft connecting directly between the diff and wheels, you'd have all sorts of torque-steer/other havoc. so, the L and R drivershafts need to be equal length. which means there is the Intermediate Driveshaft connecting these to the diff.

great thread, good luck with the change and keep the pics coming.

Originally Posted by shiny_car

part the reason (i presume, cos i'm no mech engineer) for the Intermediate Driveshaft(s) is because the diff is not positioned smack-bang exactly equidistant between the L and R wheels. it is offset to the left. if you simply had a long R-side driveshaft and short L-side driveshaft connecting directly between the diff and wheels, you'd have all sorts of torque-steer/other havoc. so, the L and R drivershafts need to be equal length. which means there is the Intermediate Driveshaft connecting these to the diff.

correct ad nearly complete it's also to reduce unsprung weight of the right driveshaft. torque steer and excess torsion can be countered by making the longer driveshaft thicker

I got a few more shots here. This shot of the diff shows a piece of one of the planet gears that has wedged in place inside the diff hole I spoke of earlier. If I didn't shut the car down immediately, this part may have smashed though the diff housing. I guess I was lucky, as it came pretty close. The same photo also shows the left side flange removed. Both bearings are now exposed with the bearing cases out of the way.

The next photo shows the left side driveshaft coupling that connects the inner and outer shafts. There are six heavy hex bolts holding them together. They had an enormous amount of torque on them and I had to use the extra long torque wrench to release the bolts (I was lucky there was enough room to just fit the head of the wrench in. The coupling on the right side will need to be split in the same way, but this is going to be a major pain.

The other photo shows the right coupling behind other componentry (right side of photo). This is why it's going to be a pain. You can see the right inner driveshaft coming in from the top left of the photo across to the coupling. Most people wouldn't realise that what you see here is not the part that rotates. What we can see is the outer sleeve of the driveshaft. The actual connecting shaft spins inside of this sleeve to give power to the right wheel. You can see a part of the sump in the bottom of the photo and the empty bolt hole on the right is one of the engine tray retaining bolt points (I replaced my original with a Zeatek Aluminium tray.

The last photo I have included to try and show how the driveshafts connect to the diff. The gears inside are located about 4 inches inside the housing. By releasing the right side suspension I have nearly got enough movement of the right shaft to pull it out of the diff. Problem is there is not quiet enough travel to do so.

One thing that has surprised me with this job is just how small the actual diff is........no ford nine incher here. There is so much power being put through those little teeth you can see inside the diff here. As Jeremy Clarkson said........250 crazed italian horses.

Originally Posted by shiny_car

yeah, great photos AN. i'm not confident to do the work myself, nor have all the required tools. so i admire your efforts.



part the reason (i presume, cos i'm no mech engineer) for the Intermediate Driveshaft(s) is because the diff is not positioned smack-bang exactly equidistant between the L and R wheels. it is offset to the left. if you simply had a long R-side driveshaft and short L-side driveshaft connecting directly between the diff and wheels, you'd have all sorts of torque-steer/other havoc. so, the L and R drivershafts need to be equal length. which means there is the Intermediate Driveshaft connecting these to the diff.

Yes but surely once all compnents are connected(via the couplings AN has shown),they will in effect act as a single running component,rather than seperate shafts?

Nath..thanks for the photos,they are a great insight.
I dont know how you're going to tackle that right hand coupling,looks a bit hairy but im sure you're determined
The damage to the original diff is bad and i reckon you were very lucky it didnt get to the housing.Some good advice for ppl out there who experience no drive -to pull over and turn it off.
Im having trouble seeing the actual bearing component?I just cant make it out.