0-100kmph in GTA

Originally Posted by Peter K

Imo the GTA is comparable to the BMW 330 not the M3.

BTW doing the 3.7 engine upgrade is only half at best..314 bhp wont get you very far.

If you want to compete with M3 (especially on track)you need a S/C, LSD, uprated clutch, brakes and suspension. with labour it is probably another 8-9K ?

Agree, except the brakes - the 330mm brembo set up is pretty good, no? Then you wil have a M3 beater, but probably not a CSL beater.

Probably far better to leave your 3.2 arese finest well alone, add LSD, work on the suspension (and weight reduction if you want to concentrate on track work) and spend the balance on driver training and track time. Remeber that the driver mods are transferrable to future cars as well

Evo Mag again

M3 0-60mph 5.1 / 0-100mph 12.3 sec (1570kg)
M3 CSL 0-60mph 5.3 /0-100mph 12.0 sec (1385kg)

156 GTA (1410kg)

The CSL is a striped out road/ racer, the floor in the boot is made from cardboard, if only Alfa had gone the same way with the 147/156 GTA's

Stu

Originally Posted by stuartalfa

Evo Mag again
The CSL is a striped out road/ racer, the floor in the boot is made from cardboard, if only Alfa had gone the same way with the 147/156 GTA's

Stu

No. The floor is not made of cardboard, but, the boot floor "cover" is made of cardboard with thin carpet on the top. Top Gear isn't always right you know.

Yup the 330 and GTA are directly comparable, I almost bought a 330ci but decided to hold out until Alfa made the GTA.
There wasnt any really interesting alternatives back then the 3.2 Audi was boring, and the JAg X-type put me to sleep.

German tests show 0-100 mph at 14s for the 156 GTA, on 98 octane.
Slightly quicker than the english figures which ranged from 15 to 15.5 or so (95 octane I believe), and 14 for the 147 GTA.
This is well below a standard M3, even allowing for the tragic off the line start of FWD cars which makes the acceleration gap seem larger than it is.

I have had lots of chances on track in a bog standard GTA to compare acceleration from lots of different speeds with an M3 and the M3 pulls away smoothly at any speed. Not exactly a rocketship like difference but enough to make a strong point, cornering wise it jumps all over the standard soft GTA suspension.

However I personally wouldn't be that suprised if one of the more highly tuned 3.7 Supers (they aren't all the same) would get down to 0-60mph in 4.6s or so with the same tyres as the CSL, especially at a drag strip like Santa Pod with a slightly grippier surface.
These tyres make an enormous difference to off the line traction
0-60 is pretty meaningless for a FWD though.

My own favourite indicators are 30-70mph and 0-200kph.
The 200kph meausurement (beloved by the Germans) seems fair since it includes a mix of off the line traction advantages of RWD, with the lower transmission loses of FWD which help at higher speed and aerodynamics plays a part too.

@Vamos: I would guess the CSLs tyres (Pilot Sport Cups) are worth about 12s a lap for the ring and do flatter the comparisons Vs the standard M3 slightly.

I have had fun with a CSL on track in my own car a few months ago, it wasn't particularly close.
It wasn't really fair though since in a cruel twist of fate I had Pilot Sport Cups and he just had PS2s on the day

Personally my favourite effect is the carbon fibre roof, that really is just soo cool..

Originally Posted by stuartalfa

The CSL is a striped out road/ racer, the floor in the boot is made from cardboard, if only Alfa had gone the same way with the 147/156 GTA's

Stu

Originally Posted by Trailbraker

Personally my favourite effect is the carbon fibre roof, that really is just soo cool..

Very cool

Also like the thick suede steering wheel

This is what your up against in my new beast!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnx6Q3epnAo

Originally Posted by Trailbraker

@Vamos: I would guess the CSLs tyres (Pilot Sport Cups) are worth about 12s a lap for the ring and do flatter the comparisons Vs the standard M3 slightly.

I have had fun with a CSL on track in my own car a few months ago, it wasn't particularly close.
It wasn't really fair though since in a cruel twist of fate I had Pilot Sport Cups and he just had PS2s on the day

Bang on the money. The Cups are reckoned to be worth cca 10 seconds a lap. But a bigger difference seems to be the driver quality - M3 seems to be driven by a wide range of pilots, the CSL seems to attract the more experienced and dedicated type.

Would you say that your car is a CSL beater (tyres and driver being equal)? I could believe it.

Originally Posted by vamos

But a bigger difference seems to be the driver quality - M3 seems to be driven by a wide range of pilots, the CSL seems to attract the more experienced and dedicated type.

you can say that again!!!!!!

I have still got a shot somewhere of Tim driving that car of yours flat out with the lap ticket clamped firmly between his teeth.

In fact, here it is

Originally Posted by stuartalfa

Evo Mag again

M3 0-60mph 5.1 / 0-100mph 12.3 sec (1570kg)
M3 CSL 0-60mph 5.3 /0-100mph 12.0 sec (1385kg)

156 GTA (1410kg)

The CSL is a striped out road/ racer, the floor in the boot is made from cardboard, if only Alfa had gone the same way with the 147/156 GTA's

Stu

Not even close on the 0-60 figures for the CSL and M3 - most magazines I read have the E46 M3 under 5 seconds (mostly 4.8-4.9) and the CSL in the 4.3-4.6 category. Even the new 335 Coupe does 0-60 in 4.8. To get a time over 5 seconds in an M3 you have to go back to the 90s - I think the official time for my 1997 E36 M3 (Euro-spec) was 5.2, though I remember several magazines mentioning real world tests on a broken in engine of under 5 seconds...

For a front wheel drived hot hatch 6.3 is more than just a respectable time, the 147 GTA was the fastest car in its class for several years running (until this year's arrival of the new R32 and BMW 130i with both claim 0-60 in 6.2)... One of the things I love the most about the 147 GTA is how over the top it was compared to other cars in its category that were available at the time I purchased it. She was (and is) a wild and crazy Italian!

Not sure you guys get EVO mag in Japan, but in the UK it is the only Performance car mag worth buying.
These performance figures are independent & not the manufactures figures.

M3 0-60mph 5.1 / 0-100mph 12.3 sec (1570kg)
M3 CSL 0-60mph 5.3 /0-100mph 12.0 sec (1385kg)
M3 E36 0-60 mph 5.4 / 0-100mph 12.8 sec (1515kg)
M3 E30 0-60 mph 6.7 / 0-100mph 17.8sec ( 1257kg)

Still very fast car's & i wish Alfa would build cars like the CSL.
Stu

Doh, was expecting a lovely GTV6 sound
The 0-30kph was very quick for sure.

Guess you swopped the GTA then Barbs, well good luck with the new baby anyway.

Originally Posted by Barbalatte

This is what your up against in my new beast!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnx6Q3epnAo

www.track-challenge.com whose data comes from one of the German top mags detailed tests.

Have
E46 M3 0-100kph 5.2
CSL 0-100kph 4.8

Guess at 0-60 figures being .2 to .3 less.

---

@Vamos: I really don't know, somewhat track specific I'd say too - there no doubt at all the CSL is extremely agile with sophisticated cornering options but on the other hand has fairly modest torque which would hurt it on the long uphill sections at the ring.
A *full* lap of the Ring would help too with Antoniousbuche coming meaningfully into the picture..
At some point I do planning on getting private Ring Tuition, and would be interested to see what somebody who actually knows what they are doing like Mr. Schoysman could do in it

Originally Posted by stuartalfa

Not sure you guys get EVO mag in Japan, but in the UK it is the only Performance car mag worth buying.
These performance figures are independent & not the manufactures figures.

M3 0-60mph 5.1 / 0-100mph 12.3 sec (1570kg)
M3 CSL 0-60mph 5.3 /0-100mph 12.0 sec (1385kg)
M3 E36 0-60 mph 5.4 / 0-100mph 12.8 sec (1515kg)
M3 E30 0-60 mph 6.7 / 0-100mph 17.8sec ( 1257kg)

Still very fast car's & i wish Alfa would build cars like the CSL.
Stu

Haven't looked at the times in years but thought the ones I quoted were accurate as I used to follow these cars quite closely. Am off to a meeting so I don't have time right now, but just did a very quick net search and found 3 articles quoting the CSL at 4.6-4.8 seconds, a bit higher than I wrote, but still well below 5 seconds. I will take a closer look tonight and post what I find.

Originally Posted by stuartalfa

Not sure you guys get EVO mag in Japan, but in the UK it is the only Performance car mag worth buying.
These performance figures are independent & not the manufactures figures.

M3 0-60mph 5.1 / 0-100mph 12.3 sec (1570kg)
M3 CSL 0-60mph 5.3 /0-100mph 12.0 sec (1385kg)
M3 E36 0-60 mph 5.4 / 0-100mph 12.8 sec (1515kg)
M3 E30 0-60 mph 6.7 / 0-100mph 17.8sec ( 1257kg)

Still very fast car's & i wish Alfa would build cars like the CSL.
Stu

Here is a few acceleration figures I found for the standard E46 M3. The slowest quote was 5.0.

M3 E46

sport auto 3/2003
0 - 100 km/h 5,0 s
0 - 200 km/h 17,9 s

ams 1/2003
0 - 100 km/h 4,8 s
0 - 200 km/h 16,8 s

sport auto 01/2005
0 - 100 km/h 4,8 s
0 - 200 km/h 17,6 s

It's strange how different Mag's get different time's out of the same cars, it beats me?
Anyway, cheers GTACharlie, you know a lot more about BM's than i do dude.
Stu

Originally Posted by stuartalfa

It's strange how different Mag's get different time's out of the same cars, it beats me?
Anyway, cheers GTACharlie, you know a lot more about BM's than i do dude.
Stu

I was into them for a buch of years - but as for the different times quoted in different magazines I think that is due to how difficult it is to do a perfect 0-60 launch. Several people have pointed out (I think correctly) that the 0-60 figures are not all that meaningful in terms of real word driveability. That fact may be a partial explanation of why I love my GTA so much more than the far faster M3 and my previous car which was faster still, a Scooby Sti.

Well I know that "Wheels" magazine have their stock standard test 0-100km/h. They will usually have the driver + 40kg off the top of my head.
Different magazines use different methods. Some use Driver + Passanger + 20kg. There are many variants.
You know as well as I do that some cars perform very differently when there is a passanger, let alone 2 or 3 passangers.

Originally Posted by GTACharlie

Although shaving 1.3 seconds off the GTA is not impossible, it is not something you can come close to doing with a light tune (muffler, chip, filter, intake pipe). To get the 0-60 time in to M3 territory you have to vastly alter the engine, usually via something like the addition of a turbo, a supercharger or seriously boring out the engine. The staggeringly expensive (but awesome) AutoDelta 3.7 liter GTA AM hits 0-60 in 5 seconds, but to beat an M3 off the line you'd actually have to opt for their 147 GTA AM Superchaged version which would hit 0-60 in 4.8 seconds. Even then, the M3 would still be much faster on any course with curves...

But again, as I said before, even a standard GTA is far, far more fun than an M3, and costs a heckuva lot less to boot! I have no regrets whatsoever

Having just sold my 156GTA for an M3, the M3 is definately quicker, were i would be hesitant for fear of damage when ripping thru the gears in the GTA, the M3 is just brutal. Sequental Launch is a fantastic feature on the M3. (hold 1st gear, floor the throttle, then just release)
Somethings i do miss thou are the GTA sound, M3 sounds s*it and pathetic compared to my old baby and the GTA look is IMO still a cracker.