Pedal adjustment for heel & toe

[Hobbes]

Hi,
Don't know if anyone else has this problem, but the throttle pedal is for me a good 2 inches too high on hard braking for smooth heel and toe action. Brake and throttle could be a little closer together, too. Anyone know if there is anyway to adjust this? They sell some sort of piece that attaches to the pedal at the ASSO site, but the description says:

"The owner who felt dissatisfaction for the pedal layout of a 156 GTA MT model thinks that he is not few.
A remarkable level difference is in a brake pedal and an accelerator, and in case it is heel and toe, accelerators are the goods of an item apt in the direction felt far.
Specifically, it can only insert between the pedal by the side of the body, and the pedal only for GTA, and the bottom raising of the 10mm accelerator can be carried out.
Attachment can remove four standard screws and it is only the easy design fixed on an exclusive screw.
Practicality is an unfathomable item although it is the tuning which is not visible."

I haven't a clue what that means...

[mr.orange]

Originally Posted by Hobbes

Hi,
Don't know if anyone else has this problem, but the throttle pedal is for me a good 2 inches too high on hard braking for smooth heel and toe action. Brake and throttle could be a little closer together, too. Anyone know if there is anyway to adjust this? They sell some sort of piece that attaches to the pedal at the ASSO site, but the description says:

"The owner who felt dissatisfaction for the pedal layout of a 156 GTA MT model thinks that he is not few.
A remarkable level difference is in a brake pedal and an accelerator, and in case it is heel and toe, accelerators are the goods of an item apt in the direction felt far.
Specifically, it can only insert between the pedal by the side of the body, and the pedal only for GTA, and the bottom raising of the 10mm accelerator can be carried out.
Attachment can remove four standard screws and it is only the easy design fixed on an exclusive screw.
Practicality is an unfathomable item although it is the tuning which is not visible."

I haven't a clue what that means...

read my signature

[Hobbes]

Let me clarify for you Mr. Orange...
During hard braking, i.e. when depressing the brake pedal with high pressure in order to slow the car down rapidly, the plane of the throttle pedal, for me, is approx. 2 inches higher than the plane of the brake pedal, hence making the action of blipping the throttle difficult to perform consistently.
I was asking if a) anyone else experiencing a simialr problem, and b) whether there is any way to adjust the pedals (either higher brake pedal or lower throttle pedal, or a combination of both)
Would appreciate intelligent responses.

[Trailbraker]

I think Mr. Orange was being funny, at least I though he was
The translation looked to be somewhat gibberish-icised.

I heel and toe all the time, and havent noticed this particularly.
The pedals seemed well spaced to me, but yes you do have to "****" your heel slightly.

It is my impression that having braided pipes meant there is less depression required for the brake pedal under hard braking, and I think that this did made heel and toeing easier for me than without braided pipes.
Its a while since I had braided pipes installed so I couldn't swear that this was the case (but I think it was).

Normally you would have the toe of your right foot swivelled at an angle on the brake pedal with the right side of the right foot slightly poised above the throttle - ready to "blip".
Since the foot is swivelled - the part of the side of the foot that blips the throttle is naturally higher than the toe of the same foot.

It does take a bit of practice to keep a constant pressure on the brake pedal.
BTW Note you can't easily do this if your seat is too close to the steering wheel since your legs won;t be straight enough to do it naturally. (Of course you need to stay close enough that you have full control of the wheel - e.g. can put wrsit on top of the wheel).

However I don't think that the static height difference between the two pedals is that most relevent aspect - personally I think that what matters the most is that you are able to easily achieve the optimimum blip (i.e. sufficient accelerator travel) without having to dip the accelerator "too much" below the brake pedal..

Obviously during a "blip" the accelerator will be depressed below the level of the brake pedal to some extent but - basically the lower you have to push the accelerator to achieve a "big blip" (say under very heavy braking on the track) - the more difficult it is to maintain constant pressure on the brake pedal..

My point is that you really need to have the "toe" very securely on the brake pedal with no chance of it slipping off

Don't have any advice on the mechanical mods, but if you can't get comfortable doing it I guess you could try changing things !

Hope some of this was intelligible

Cheers,
TB

Originally Posted by Hobbes

Let me clarify for you Mr. Orange...
During hard braking, i.e. when depressing the brake pedal with high pressure in order to slow the car down rapidly, the plane of the throttle pedal, for me, is approx. 2 inches higher than the plane of the brake pedal, hence making the action of blipping the throttle difficult to perform consistently.
I was asking if a) anyone else experiencing a simialr problem, and b) whether there is any way to adjust the pedals (either higher brake pedal or lower throttle pedal, or a combination of both)
Would appreciate intelligent responses.

[Peter K]

umm.. heel/Toe... not quite there yet Still at the "braking late" stage

[mr.orange]

tried to heel and toe with my work boots on going to work last night.....OMG

[guezen]

I didn't have a clue as to what heel & toe meant. So I tried it today in my Passat Automatic. Not a good idea I guess ??

Not at that stage of experience yet.... I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by mr.orange

tried to heel and toe with my work boots on going to work last night.....OMG

[Hobbes]

Originally Posted by Trailbraker

However I don't think that the static height difference between the two pedals is that most relevent aspect - personally I think that what matters the most is that you are able to easily achieve the optimimum blip (i.e. sufficient accelerator travel) without having to dip the accelerator "too much" below the brake pedal..

Obviously during a "blip" the accelerator will be depressed below the level of the brake pedal to some extent but - basically the lower you have to push the accelerator to achieve a "big blip" (say under very heavy braking on the track) - the more difficult it is to maintain constant pressure on the brake pedal..

I think the problem may be that I don't actually use the heel to blip the throttle. I like to use the outside of my right toe area to blip, something I learnt/developed while playing around with formula Renault cars at the Zhuhai circuit (China). In those cars you could adjust all the pedals in any which way.
Maybe it's time to learn a new technique...

[Trailbraker]

Sorry only saw this now

Have alook at this excellent article posted a while back here here by another member (tootes) on a thread on left foot braking which turned into a discussion about heel and toe.

http://www.thinkinghouse.co.uk/ht/Heelandtoep1.jpg
http://www.thinkinghouse.co.uk/ht/Heelandtoep2.jpg
http://www.thinkinghouse.co.uk/ht/Heelandtoep3.jpg


The above has really excellent pictures of the correct foot positions.
Note it does show how to do a double de-clutched heel and toe, but its easy to leave out the double declutch step if you want.
Double de clutches are in theory easier on the synchro, very slightly smoother, and require a smaller blip.
As to whether any of these aspects are significant enough to learn the technique is a different matter and its not taught that commonly for modern cars these days.

The full set of steps without double declutching are decribed at
http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving..._heeltoe.shtml
the foot positions aren't very accurately drawn here (so refer to the above pictures instead), but the set of steps at least is correct.
The descriptive text isn't that fantastic either in that article talking about using your "heel" when it should be the side of your foot as seen in the Barker article from Evo magazine above.

Cheers,
TB

Originally Posted by Hobbes

I think the problem may be that I don't actually use the heel to blip the throttle. I like to use the outside of my right toe area to blip, something I learnt/developed while playing around with formula Renault cars at the Zhuhai circuit (China). In those cars you could adjust all the pedals in any which way.
Maybe it's time to learn a new technique...

[ABYSS]

I have no problem to heel & toe on my 2.0 TS. However, when I last drove the GTA and i found the accelarator is kind of slow response that I have to almost keep my foot on the pedal for a while rather than just one press. Looks like I have to get used to it when I get my GTA.

[Trailbraker]

That doesn't sound like a normal GTA throttle response Abyss.
I suspect somehting is not well, if you can reproduce this behaviour.

Was the car fully warmed up when you tried?
Maybe keep us posted on whether this happens with your GTA?
Did this happen on your GTA that you are about to pick up ?

I would have described the GTAs throttle response as very linear but very very quick!
By linear I mean that depressing it a short amount does not give a disproportionate amount of throttle.

The dispropotionate throttle trick is often used by smaller cars to give an impression of power for normal driving, of course nothing much extra happens when you push the pedal down all the way..
Having a linear response is very useful for a powerful car like a GTA.

Anyway hope you enjoy your GTA when you get it!

Cheers,
TB

Originally Posted by ABYSS

However, when I last drove the GTA and i found the accelarator is kind of slow response that I have to almost keep my foot on the pedal for a while rather than just one press. Looks like I have to get used to it when I get my GTA.