Remap or not?

[efcmandan]

Hi Guys

after owning the 147 for 3 months now, I'm getting the itch to start getting a few things done on it. I love the car, and am more than happy to spend money on it as at the moment I'm never getting rid!

First up will be a Q2, next few weeks hopefully. But, I'm wondering if I should get a remap. I had my car into a well-known Alfa specialist recently, and he commented that I would benefit from a remap as my car was running a bit rich (I think that's what he said), probably because of the CSC exhaust (cat back) and AD induction. He said this had altered the mixture of air/fuel. I am a little bit dubious to be honest as I would imagine the ECU would adjust for these kind of things automatically? Or am I being naive?

I wouldn't be remapping for more power necessarily, but if my car isn't running as it should then I'll happily have it done to rectify this. That said, it seems to be running very well!

What do you reckon folks? Has anyone else remapped? What were the results? Also, where and how much?

Cheers

[george123]

I'm no expert but.....

I had a remap and CDA filter fitted by Angel who alot of people here have used and recommend highly - already had an Autodelta back box & centre pipe.

No idea what the power gain was or is BUT from 4000 rpm upwards there's a HUGE difference to how it was previously...really pulls hard all the way upto 6000+... also an improvement in economy, slight but definitely there. Also sounds fantastic!

Someone can probably give you a much more technical appraisal but to me its a must if you already have the exhaust & induction kit...you'll feel complete

[efcmandan]

Originally Posted by george123

I'm no expert but.....

I had a remap and CDA filter fitted by Angel who alot of people here have used and recommend highly - already had an Autodelta back box & centre pipe.

No idea what the power gain was or is BUT from 4000 rpm upwards there's a HUGE difference to how it was previously...really pulls hard all the way upto 6000+... also an improvement in economy, slight but definitely there. Also sounds fantastic!

Someone can probably give you a much more technical appraisal but to me its a must if you already have the exhaust & induction kit...you'll feel complete

Thanks for your response. Based on that, I've just sent an enquiry through their website and will get it done next week I reckon!

Thanks again!

[george123]

Originally Posted by efcmandan

Thanks for your response. Based on that, I've just sent an enquiry through their website and will get it done next week I reckon!

Thanks again!

No problem....after 6 months with the re-map you'll be thinking...hmmm wonder if they can make it a bit quicker?!

[efcmandan]

Originally Posted by george123

No problem....after 6 months with the re-map you'll be thinking...hmmm wonder if they can make it a bit quicker?!

Heheh. Well, Q2, remap, suspension, all need sorting before I start thinking about more power. And when it comes to power, I keep coming back to supercharging!

[george123]

Originally Posted by efcmandan

Heheh. Well, Q2, remap, suspension, all need sorting before I start thinking about more power. And when it comes to power, I keep coming back to supercharging!

...sounds like you've got a bottomless pit of cash!!! Have fun...!

[GhostyDog]

Originally Posted by efcmandan

Heheh. Well, Q2, remap, suspension, all need sorting before I start thinking about more power. And when it comes to power, I keep coming back to supercharging!

You seem to be going through the same things as me. I've found the limit s of the car and now want to expand it's boundaries.

Brakes - Big Brake Kit, looking at K-Sport & D2 cheers pud (AP Racing design without the name)

Suspension - Although I'd love to go for full coilovers I think as the car is also a daily driver i'll end up going the FSD/Eibach route, it seems to work and gives acceptible levels of control and comfort. Also maybe uprated ARBs.

Induction - Got a weekend planned in soon with a mate who has a garage full of tuning gear so going to build up some heath robinson induction kits and do a few runs to see what feels good.

Exhaust - Short Term Ragazzon - Long Term Supersprint Full System once I've convinced the wife it's a 'maintenance' thing.

After that I may go as far as hot(ter) cams and a remap but I'll probably leave it at that for a while, coupla years down the line, if I want more power then i'll wait til someone crashes a 3.7 and buy the engine for transplant.

Dan, you know a few months ago you were on about driving somewhere to get the Q2 done? That's imminently the next thing on my list so let me know what your thoughts are about where you want to get it done.

I'm going to ring around a few places a bit more local to us this week. See if we can offset the cost of petrol (getting there) against the cost of fitting.

[Alfaclod]

Definately go for the remap...that's my advice!!! I had mine done at Angel Tuning as well as the BMC air intake. I would recommend getting the intake done then the remap to reap the full benefits. Even though I've still got the standard exhaust system on the car it sounds absolutely amazing after getting it "Angel Tuned". Some people have actually asked me if it was a V8 rather than a V6 as the sound now is very throaty, especially after 4000 rpm when all hell breaks loose!!
Power gains are minimal, it just feels a bit more responsive.
My cousin booked his 156 GTA in to be remapped not long after he drove mine because he was so impressed!!! I just can't help tracking down tunnels and flooring it whenever I get a chance......pure music to my ears !!!!!

[efcmandan]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I'm in contact with Angel at the moment via email, just trying to clarify a few things before I get the work done.

Originally Posted by GhostyDog

Dan, you know a few months ago you were on about driving somewhere to get the Q2 done? That's imminently the next thing on my list so let me know what your thoughts are about where you want to get it done.

Sean - the Q2 is still on my mind. Can you wait a few weeks? I'm trying not to spend any money for a little while!

Alfatune said they'd do the Q2 for just under £600 I think. They are in St Helens which is 5 miles from me. I'd rather take it to Autolusso to be honest, but that's an £80 fuel bill on top. Food for thought...

[efcmandan]

Originally Posted by Alfaclod

Definately go for the remap...that's my advice!!! I had mine done at Angel Tuning as well as the BMC air intake. I would recommend getting the intake done then the remap to reap the full benefits. Even though I've still got the standard exhaust system on the car it sounds absolutely amazing after getting it "Angel Tuned". Some people have actually asked me if it was a V8 rather than a V6 as the sound now is very throaty, especially after 4000 rpm when all hell breaks loose!!
Power gains are minimal, it just feels a bit more responsive.
My cousin booked his 156 GTA in to be remapped not long after he drove mine because he was so impressed!!! I just can't help tracking down tunnels and flooring it whenever I get a chance......pure music to my ears !!!!!

Heheh, sounds great!! I can never find tunnels any more The nearest decent ones to me are the ones under the Mersey, which is a bit of a trek. Or the ones underneath the runway at Mcr Airport...

[Pud237]

Originally Posted by efcmandan

Alfatune said they'd do the Q2 for just under £600 I think. They are in St Helens which is 5 miles from me. I'd rather take it to Autolusso to be honest, but that's an £80 fuel bill on top. Food for thought...

AutoLusso is £480 for club members - cheaper than AlfaTune including your fuel bill..

I take it AlfaTune haven't done that many before, if they are wanting £600ish.. Or maybe they just have a lot of business. Sam @ AutoLusso must have done about a million by now, he had my suspension stripped down in no time, worked at a fair pace and never even needed to even stop and think about what comes next, proper little professional. Looked like he could have done it blind-folded, you probably get like that with experience, probably why AutoLusso are still offering it at £500 like they were when the diff and other bits cost £250 from Alfa, now the whole lot costs £300 from Alfa and the price is still £500, or £480 for club members.. Cracking stuff, and I got 2 bacon butties, 2 kit kats and about 10 cups of tea in that, and had a go in his 156 V6 with FSDs and Eibachs.

[OperationAlfa]

Originally Posted by Pud237

AutoLusso is £480 for club members - cheaper than AlfaTune including your fuel bill..

I take it AlfaTune haven't done that many before, if they are wanting £600ish.. Or maybe they just have a lot of business. Sam @ AutoLusso must have done about a million by now, he had my suspension stripped down in no time, worked at a fair pace and never even needed to even stop and think about what comes next, proper little professional. Looked like he could have done it blind-folded, you probably get like that with experience, probably why AutoLusso are still offering it at £500 like they were when the diff and other bits cost £250 from Alfa, now the whole lot costs £300 from Alfa and the price is still £500, or £480 for club members.. Cracking stuff, and I got 2 bacon butties, 2 kit kats and about 10 cups of tea in that, and had a go in his 156 V6 with FSDs and Eibachs.

Pud, as I said, I would double check Autolusso's prices as the part price has gone up. I think I remember Ned telling me it was more now.

[Pud237]

Originally Posted by OperationAlfa

Pud, as I said, I would double check Autolusso's prices as the part price has gone up. I think I remember Ned telling me it was more now.

Unless it's changed in the last 17 hours..

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tunin...ml#post2014323 (List of companies who fit the Q2 Differential Upgrade)

I think it did go up to £550 when the diff price went up by £50, but Ned has since brought it down. I don't think they did many at £550, I think people were put off by the price increase.

[efcmandan]

Originally Posted by Pud237

AutoLusso is £480 for club members - cheaper than AlfaTune including your fuel bill..

I take it AlfaTune haven't done that many before, if they are wanting £600ish.. Or maybe they just have a lot of business. Sam @ AutoLusso must have done about a million by now, he had my suspension stripped down in no time, worked at a fair pace and never even needed to even stop and think about what comes next, proper little professional. Looked like he could have done it blind-folded, you probably get like that with experience, probably why AutoLusso are still offering it at £500 like they were when the diff and other bits cost £250 from Alfa, now the whole lot costs £300 from Alfa and the price is still £500, or £480 for club members.. Cracking stuff, and I got 2 bacon butties, 2 kit kats and about 10 cups of tea in that, and had a go in his 156 V6 with FSDs and Eibachs.

Yeah, I know their service is top-notch, that's why I'm keen to take it there. Be nice to get the car looked over too.

To be honest, the bacon butties probably sealed it.

[efcmandan]

Nigel from Angel Tuning is coming to my work today at 2pm to do my remap!

Will report back, probably after the weekend when I've had time to 'test' it fully

[GTA Jim]

Originally Posted by efcmandan

Nigel from Angel Tuning is coming to my work today at 2pm to do my remap!

Will report back, probably after the weekend when I've had time to 'test' it fully

Bet your like a kid on Christmas eve! Have a safe drive home:ANYWORD:

[double-6s]

How did the garage decide it was running rich?

Mine looks like it's running rich due to 'sooty' tail pipes, but I understand that it's mapped from the factory to over fuel at high revs for protection?

[Pud237]

Originally Posted by double-6s

Mine looks like it's running rich due to 'sooty' tail pipes, but I understand that it's mapped from the factory to over fuel at high revs for protection?

Correctamundo!

Mine has sooty tailpipes and recently passed MOT emissions test, well within the limits (cat was on).

I think AFR are something like 10-11:1 when at full throttle and high revs.

[newalfisti]

Originally Posted by Pud237

Correctamundo!

Mine has sooty tailpipes and recently passed MOT emissions test, well within the limits (cat was on).

I think AFR are something like 10-11:1 when at full throttle and high revs.

Imagine what would happen if you could take it to 13:1 without detonation, i reckon at least a good 15bhp increase.

[Pud237]

Originally Posted by newalfisti

Imagine what would happen if you could take it to 13:1 without detonation, i reckon at least a good 15bhp increase.

No idea what mines running with the Unichip. I don't get any detonation on 99 octane but it runs like sh*te on 95, nothing there on full throttle over 5,500 rpm, I assume its the knock sensor detecting a slight bit of pinking and backing the timing off...

Do you reckon its difficult to get a factory 220bhp 3.0 engine to 245bhp on std cams? Augusto from Red Dot told me most standard 3.0 engines make 210-215bhp on his rollers, mine was mapped by previous owner by an old-school engine tuner so 245bhp seems quite good, if that is a true figure..

What's better for power, 14.7:1? I've heard 13.4:1 bandied about but not sure why that figure is in my head..

[newalfisti]

Originally Posted by Pud237

No idea what mines running with the Unichip. I don't get any detonation on 99 octane but it runs like sh*te on 95, nothing there on full throttle over 5,500 rpm, I assume its the knock sensor detecting a slight bit of pinking and backing the timing off...

Do you reckon its difficult to get a factory 220bhp 3.0 engine to 245bhp on std cams? Augusto from Red Dot told me most standard 3.0 engines make 210-215bhp on his rollers, mine was mapped by previous owner by an old-school engine tuner so 245bhp seems quite good, if that is a true figure..

What's better for power, 14.7:1? I've heard 13.4:1 bandied about but not sure why that figure is in my head..

14.7 is the stoichiometric AFR. For best power practice has shown that you neet a richer than Stoichoiometric AFR which in the real world is about 13:1. When manufacturers go for richer is due to the fact that there is detonation present due to temperature and thus the need to cool the cylinder down. e.g. the Lotus Carlton used to run 8:1 at full beans.
245hp on the 3lt i dont think it is an exaggerated value if the work has been done properly.

[Pud237]

Well my compression is the standard for 3.0 (10:1?), engine is stock internally. But AFRs could be 13:1 like you say, as opposed to 10/11:1, which might explain my very noticeable difference between using 95 and 99 octane.

What else can be done to cool the in-cylinder temps down?

[efcmandan]

Originally Posted by double-6s

How did the garage decide it was running rich?

Mine looks like it's running rich due to 'sooty' tail pipes, but I understand that it's mapped from the factory to over fuel at high revs for protection?

From what I can remember he said there was some kind of build-up somewhere?! Sorry, but I'd had the car a week and had a problem with it, so at that time I was more concerned with getting it fixed than listening to him try and sell me a re-map!!

Anyway, the re-map is done and I'm very pleased with it. Power gains are just enough to be noticeable, and increasing the rev limit by 500rpms means I'm not bouncing off the limiter any more when 'making good progress'. Don't get me wrong, I don't thrash the car all day every day, but now and then when the road opens up, it's difficult not to give it some.

I'm going on a rolling-road day on the 27th September so i'll post back the results from that. I'd be happy with 260-265bhp, as gains are supposed to be around 18bhp I believe.

[GhostyDog]

Originally Posted by efcmandan

I'm going on a rolling-road day on the 27th September so i'll post back the results from that. I'd be happy with 260-265bhp, as gains are supposed to be around 18bhp I believe.

If your car was running 250 to begin with, there can be quite a bit of fluctuation, most are below some are above.

18bhp? Doubtful but if you get it I might give angel a ring myself... Is a 7% increase in power that noticeable, I'm sure most of the remap is to smooth the power curve and introduce more torque lower in the rev range???

Be interested to see your dyno reports

[Pud237]

18bhp would be very impressive