Cloverleaf! Worth the extra?

[MikeyRules]

As the title says really.

I've been looking for a new(er) Alfa to replace my 156 for a few months now, and initially had my mind set on a 159 ti, having had one before. I've been toiling between various Alfa engine options and wondered about the 1750 tbi?

Now the 1750 in the 159 isn't quick in standard guise, especially given that it's a heavy car. But in the Giulietta, and especially the Cloverleaf where they've squeezed a few more horses out, it could be a different matter!

So I wondered if any of you Cloverleaf owners out there could give me your thoughts on ownership, performance, economy and handling etc before I go and find one to test drive?

Cheers

Mike

[cue2]

For what it's worth, when CarMagazine summed up their long term test of the QV they still thought the Multiair was preferable for engine sound and probably economy.The extra thousands do take it into higher expectation levels.

[Spyder]

Just hit 20,000 mile mark in mine and still rattle free, averaging 31mpg with spirited driving D mode is bloody amazing, the accelaration is just awesome. I came from a 159 3.2 V6 and wanted the same power but with better economy and I've definitely got that.
Test drive one and you'll be smitten although the seat took a bit of getting used to, apart from that no complaints.

[Alfred TI]

I still love my QV. Its had a couple of niggles but nothing different to any other Giulietta.
Is it worth the extra i'd say yes.

If you are talking a new purchase, a basic QV is £26000
A 1.4MA Veloce with 18" turbines, Red calipers & darkened windows (identical to QV except not lowered suspension & engine difference) is £23535
That is a difference of 10.4%
BHP difference is 170/235 = 38% more power.

QV fuel consumption is going to be worse. MA approx 40 mpg, QV approx 30 = 33% more in QV.
Actual figures will vary on useage of course. MA's on fuelly seem to be between 32 & 39mpg. My QV is averaging about 26mpg but i do a lot of short journeys. Fuelly shows mine as the lowest mpg QV, another at 28 & 2 others over 30.

A lot of people say the MA sounds better, and it possibly does, but my QV goes like stink and that keeps me happy.
As said above, go for a test drive and see what you think.

[MikeyRules]

Thanks guys

Some really good feedback there! They do look look a really good package, and your posts make encouraging reading.

What's the power delivery like? Is it linear, or is it delivered mid range and then drops off?

I'm not sure i'd go for brand new, probably demo or used up to a year old possibly. Sunroof and Nav would be ideal, but I guess not many will have been ordered with those options.

[Alfred TI]

Power in N is quite linear but you feel a good pull at 3000 onwards
D is very responsive and gives a good humph at 12-1500rpm and pulls hard but fairly linear after that.
It is a little difficult to fully judge how linear it is on 70 limit roads though. Its up to 70 in only a couple of gear changes and in about 8 seconds, 15% quicker than a MA. (MA 0->62=7.8 sec QV 6.8 sec)

There is a good chance of finding a used QV or MA with a sunroof and satnav or tomtom port but you may be more limited on colour choice with the QV.
I looked at demo's first too, but it worked out cheaper to go new and get low rate finance which they won't offer on a demo/used car.

[Alfred TI]

http://www.alfaromeo.r66.co.uk/giuli...cmdc=se_na_re_
Met Alfa Red, Sunroof, Tomtom port, Full leather £20900.
There are a couple of QV's with SR's and a couple with Nav but only the one with both that i could see.
Looks nice though.

[Arvid]

I came from a 156 jtd16v and really liked the way it always had the low grunt to help me fly through an overtaking etc. but my QV picks up from even lower rpm (in D) and continues all the way to 6.000 rpm (or 6.200 rpm going down hill and with a storm in the back, that equals out to 264 km/h or 164 mph ) i think it is some what diesel like in its way of delivering the power, it just goes on a bit longer, what i mean is that it pick up a very low revs. and just keep on pulling, you always have the torque to push you in the back... lets just say i don´t miss my jtd
Speed vise it gets pretty fast to around 210-220 km/h (130-135 mph) but then use quite some time for the last part to the top at 242 km/h or 150 mph, it is able to go there though. I was able to keep up with an VW R32 (thats 250 hp right?) on the motorway, with two in the car (me and my yelling wife ) but thats also a bit heavier so it probably gets out even in the end.

[Alfred TI]

Slightly off topic - Sorry, but Arvid, just looking at your fuelly stats I see you regularly fill close to 60l and once made a 62.5l fill
Do you fill when you are on fumes or when you fill your tank and the gun clicks, do you pull the gun out a bit and squeeze in another gallon or two?

My biggest fill was 57.3l and i thought i was cutting it close.
I tend to fill till i get the click then squeeze in a little bit till the next 0.5l.

[Arvid]

Originally Posted by Alfred TI

Slightly off topic - Sorry, but Arvid, just looking at your fuelly stats I see you regularly fill close to 60l and once made a 62.5l fill
Do you fill when you are on fumes or when you fill your tank and the gun clicks, do you pull the gun out a bit and squeeze in another gallon or two?

My biggest fill was 57.3l and i thought i was cutting it close.
I tend to fill till i get the click then squeeze in a little bit till the next 0.5l.

I fill it when the needle is just about on empty
I then fill it all the way up (to the click) and then i can usually fill about 1-1,5 liter more on it, that would be 0.25-0.5 gallon i think.
But there are differences in pumps, in Sweden it clicks before it does in Denmark (i can fill more after the click in SE than in DK) so it doesn't necessarily relate to the pumps in UK.
I do think that the 62,5 liter was cutting it a bit close though

[Alfred TI]

Originally Posted by Arvid

I fill it when the needle is just about on empty
I then fill it all the way up (to the click) and then i can usually fill about 1-1,5 liter more on it, that would be 0.25-0.5 gallon i think.
But there are differences in pumps, in Sweden it clicks before it does in Denmark (i can fill more after the click in SE than in DK) so it doesn't necessarily relate to the pumps in UK.
I do think that the 62,5 liter was cutting it a bit close though

I agree with the 62.5l, there must have only been a mile or two left in your tank if that
I read in the manual just to fill to the click. I suspect its to leave room for expansion or to stop it leaking out on hard left hand turns etc.
I'm sure it would be ok though (as you have prooved) to squeeze in a little more.

[TrakDah]

I have a QV too, and I fill "late", but my largest is 57 and normally I end up at 55.

[Arvid]

On my 156 it said the tank was 63 liter but i once filled it to 65 liter, it must be whats in the pipes from the lid to the tank. It needs some air otherwise it can have problems with vacuum, and thus problems getting the fuel to the engine, but i never fill it so the gas is all the way to the lid, and so far zero problems.

[Mike0811]

I have run my QV now just a year and done just over 7500 miles. Nothing has broken or fallen off or gone wrong and nothing rattles. I test drove the MA but they had a QV in the showroom at the time and it looked a lot more purposeful with the twin exhausts and loweed suspension. I was also concerned I would miss the power with the MA, having just sold a Porsche Boxster. In a nutshell the QV is fantastic, pulls like a train in dynamic mode and I still love to get in and drive it even now. If you can afford the extra fuel consumption ( I average 30MPG) then go for the QV, no question.

[MikeyRules]

Thanks guys! Some brilliant responses so far, and great insider info that's much appreciated!

What does ''My Port Socket For Blue & Me Tom-Tom'' mean? That it's not actually present but compatable should you wish to add it? If so sounds a bit of a con.

I tried to get a test drive today at Mango's but the numpty's had sold the demo! I'll have to call Bauer Millet or Corkhills and see if they can oblige...

I doubt I'd consider the MA to be honest. I'm really interested in the 290bhp remap available for the CL, and that's the draw really. Having had a 2.4 Spider that was running just over 270bhp and 427lbft I miss the grin factor that gave.

[Arvid]

The socket is in the dash, so you can connect a tomtom V2 (or tomtom go live 1000) gps without having to plug it in the power outlet between the seats.
I have it in mine and bought the cradle for my existing tomtom go live 1000 (thats the unit the original gps is based on) see attached picture.

[MikeyRules]

Originally Posted by Arvid

The socket is in the dash, so you can connect a tomtom V2 (or tomtom go live 1000) gps without having to plug it in the power outlet between the seats.
I have it in mine and bought the cradle for my existing tomtom go live 1000 (thats the unit the original gps is based on) see attached picture.

Thanks for clearing that up fella

I'd rather have an integrated one really. I've seen some fitted in the top of the dash? Or at least I thought I had? Also do the fitted units (Assuming they exist) close down inside the top binnacle? i.e. fold away?

[8CRED]

Originally Posted by MikeyRules

Thanks for clearing that up fella

I'd rather have an integrated one really. I've seen some fitted in the top of the dash? Or at least I thought I had? Also do the fitted units (Assuming they exist) close down inside the top binnacle? i.e. fold away?

They do.

[Alfred TI]

The built in nav does have the pop up screen.
It also shows boost & G meter when in D mode i believe.
I have heard that they only work on 3 or 4 digit postcodes though and the navigation voice can be annoying when it keeps interrupting the music.
They do look good though and the nice thing is you don't have to worry about putting it away everytime you get out of the car.
I went for the tomtom port option and the alfa tomtom unit. You get touch screen, steering controls and also voice control and it is ok for me. You can also navigate your usb music on it via touch screen if you want.
It is a pain though having to remove it
If the integrated one would have been touch screen and full post code input i'd have gone for that.

[MikeyRules]

Originally Posted by Alfred TI

The built in nav does have the pop up screen.
It also shows boost & G meter when in D mode i believe.
I have heard that they only work on 3 or 4 digit postcodes though and the navigation voice can be annoying when it keeps interrupting the music.
They do look good though and the nice thing is you don't have to worry about putting it away everytime you get out of the car.
I went for the tomtom port option and the alfa tomtom unit. You get touch screen, steering controls and also voice control and it is ok for me. You can also navigate your usb music on it via touch screen if you want.
It is a pain though having to remove it
If the integrated one would have been touch screen and full post code input i'd have gone for that.

Yeah I have to remove mine at the moment and it's more trouble than its worth lol.

Are you sure the built in one's not full post code? I can understand it not being touch screen as it's not exactly placed well for that, as in a bit out of reach...

[Alfred TI]

Originally Posted by MikeyRules

Yeah I have to remove mine at the moment and it's more trouble than its worth lol.

Are you sure the built in one's not full post code? I can understand it not being touch screen as it's not exactly placed well for that, as in a bit out of reach...

That is what the dealer told me and i could only get the first part in on the ex demo car i went to see but there may be an advance setting i couldnt see.
I'm sure someone will confirm this in a few mins

[8CRED]

Originally Posted by Alfred TI

That is what the dealer told me and i could only get the first part in on the ex demo car i went to see but there may be an advance setting i couldnt see.
I'm sure someone will confirm this in a few mins

You can only input part of the postcode. I suppose it depends what you're used to. I haven't found it a problem so far but then so far I've generally had the address of my destination.

[micsanderson]

I've got a QV and i ruddy love it. It's got the built in sat nav, so ask away with questions on that, and i'm averaging around 30. It's only done 2400 miles though so that might improve.
On the motorway with the cruise on at 70mph i get 41 as an average. By the time you take into account getting to it and from it, over about 120 miles motorway, it tends to average about 39 / 40.
Around town in D with a VERY heavy foot, i'm averaging about 18.

I've not tried any post code in the sat nav yet, it probably goes in the city box. ill try it in a bit though.
Don't go for the bose upgrade, it's not needed, and i dont think you can have it with the internal sat nav anyway. I'm going to fit a sub similar to the bose one, but thats because i'm a bit of a moron.

I should say though that im fitting it myself and its costing 220. If i were having it fitted it would be more like 350. So i'd still go for that over the bose, i've heard bad things about it.

The heated seats are lush. But i couldn't afford the full leather or sunroof. The parking sensors make me lazy but i'm glad i got them because its a gorgeous car. I've never hit anything, but you can bet i would now ive got one i could actually procreate with.

I've not heard or been in the MA, so i can't vouch for it. I just never considered it, i think this is just a different animal. But then maybe i've just wasted the money on the difference! Also, this sounds far better than my friends megane renaultsport 225, and a friends focus ST. So i'm quite happy. In N, on the motorway doing 70, it's like im back in the mondeo but with no diesel engine rattling on. When you put it in D and step on the loud pedal it sounds so nice. There's a couple of particular railway bridges near me which are narrow enough to need a give way, and i actually nearly soiled myself the first time i went under it.

On the contrary to other peoples comments, I did have a rattle on delivery. I took it back up that week and they did it while I wated, apologised profusively, and gave me advice on head unit removal and cabling structure. Otherwise, it's been spot on. If the only problem I get was a factory issue and I'm going to get that kind of service, then I'm happy. Atleast I already know now what level of service to expect. I almost kind of want a problem, so i can experience the good service. lol.

Anything else, just ask away.

[eastendmyfreind]

OK gents, here's my story: 10,000 miles just gone, 10 months in, more or less.
It *IS* A GREAT CAR!

I definitely had doubts for a couple of months over whether I had overdone it - got the 8C red, Bose, wingmirrors, sunroof. 8C red is well expensive but literally the best bit about the car imo. Apart from the white triangles on the wings of course. Bose you can live without if you're not a music freak like me. It's not worth the cash but I'm getting into the sound of it. Sunroof, again expensive. Didn't make much use of it this last summer, but *looks cool*. AR certainly know how to nudge up the margins for suckers like me!

Driving wise, well you'll love it. I just have to calm down a bit after being a bit TOO CLOSE to being nicked on the A24 the other night. Could have been 9th point on license

Downsides - got a sticky fuel cap that I haven't bothered to sort out yet, and Blue&Me is Micro$oft sh1te. Can't be helped really, but can work around it.

Overall: Keep telling myself I don't need all that power and then catch myself gushing over pics of the 4C.
Still getting admiring glances and comments in the company car park at least once a week
You wouldn't be saying that with virtually any other car brand imo.

Bottom line - if you can afford a QV, you won't regret it.

DO IT!

[micsanderson]

I agree. On the sound front, I am a music freak. I've spent the last 5 years doing live PA for small - medium gigs and manage the network for a chain of nightclubs so i can get free entry
And generally, I'm a bose fan. The only reason I didn't go with it in the guilietta is that i've heard bad things about it in comparison to say, Bose in Audi's. I know enough about what i'm doing to do it myself and hope for a better outcome (ordinarily anyone would be ridiculous to contradict anything said by Bose, but it would seem like theyve let themselves down a bit on this one). And it alls comes down to opinion really anyway i guess.

Otherwise, I agree with everything you said. I got the mirrors too, they annoy me that they aren't automative (thats the whole other software updates wed like to see thread going on) but otherwise, i'm happy I'd of had the glass sun roof if theyd of let me, when we're ordering a company car (salary scheme), regardless of how much we're willing to contribute, we're capped at 28k. So I went for the QV with etna black, parking, mirrors, sat nav and heated seats.

I'm averaging about 800 miles per week so pulling the sat nav in and out of the last car was doing my nut in.