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Millbrook Proving Ground

13K views 148 replies 31 participants last post by  Neil D Harris 
#1 ·
Got an invite on Thursday (I must've been on a standby list!) to attend Millbrook at 9 or 10am today (Saturday) & I can't.make it :grumpy:
Does anyone know if you get another chance?
BTW got my nice little brochure & USB pack on Thursday as well:lick:
 
#8 ·
Agreed, was disappointed at first that the QV was manual, but the diesel did give a chance to exercise the paddles! When in manual (particularly) the ZF box definitely gives you the best of both worlds. I'm not surprised they made a point of making us do an emergency stop from 100mph, those brakes are impressive!

Both cars were great and being driven around in a 4C put my driving skills into perspective!!
 
#11 ·
Its a real shame if they weren't going to give your RHD in the QV that they couldn't have at least given you ZF8SPD paddle box! Makes me wonder how relevant some of the early UK reviews are when comparing a MT car against the opposition (C63S, M3 DCT etc).

Other than the box what were your thoughts on the styling, cockpit and overall feel of the engine, sound and "vibe" of the car gents? Is this a car full of character with an edge to it that will get under the skin of those of us who like to DRIVE?
 
#13 ·
I've seen quite a lot of the inside of the car and I think it's great both static and whilst driving and the carbon seats certainly keep you in position well! The cars we drove were pre-production and personally the only slight gripe is that the hard plastic isn't as good quality-wise as in my 159, but all the controls were solid and looked and felt good imo, contrary to comments in some reviews.

The engine in the QV sounds fantastic and when revved in RACE you can feel the car flex. I wasn't allowed to drive in RACE, (don't know if that was universally the case!), only in dynamic which was more than sufficient to gauge the cars performance! I was reminded on several occasions that (except for the 1 mile straight and the bowl), the speed limit was 50/55 mph! You could really appreciate the softer feel of the suspension when moving from dynamic to natural and I definitely think that the QV is a car that will be fantastic day-to-day.

I was probably most impressed with the steering and handling, as you can really throw the car into corners and as has been mentioned in the reviews, the car feels very 'planted' and connected to the road, not that my limited driving skills would have done it justice!

Just can't wait to get hold of a RHD QV with paddles!!
 
#12 ·
Here's the full low down from the event - hopefully this will be useful for those people going to the later events.
You turn up and park in the visitors car park where there are Alfa staff waiting for you - they make you put stickers over your phone's camera lenses. You then get a lift in a Giulietta to a part of the complex where all the cars are hanging out. Overall they had around 10 Giulias, half 150 bhp diesels of differing colours, half QVs all identical competizione red manuals with dark 5 hole wheels.
There is a nice building with all sorts of Giulia and Alfa guff with lunch and a proper coffee machine. Lots of staff hanging around all keen to chat. After lunch you get taken for 2 "hot laps" in a 4C with a racing driver. Oh my lord that was scary. I have done lots of things like this in the past but I have never been as scared as I was in that 4C. The drivers are full lunatics and really push those little cars way beyond what I thought was safe to be honest - there were no runs offs and some nasry looking hills to hit if they lost it. It was great fun though and I'm glad they didn't go all health and safety. I'm not exaggerating though, I was shaking for about 10 minutes afterwards.

On return to the building (still shaking), there was a bit more hanging around but all the cars were open and I did a lot of poking about. I also had too much of the very nice coffee.

You were then split into groups of 4 and allocated a diesel and a QV. Each car came with a racing driver, although you did all the driving. Each person did each exercise in both cars. The first was the mile strip where you got to drive off like a scalded cat, then at about 100mph do an emergency stop. Then you could hare off again. Lots of fun and boy does that QV move. The fly-by-wire braking system was a bit freaky but impressive. The next exercise was driving the 3 mile alpine circuit. This was great fun. The drivers let you go pretty fast, but you could tell they were getting nervous when you really went for it. This track really showed what an amazing handling car the Giulia is (both diesel and QV). I was already smitten but this sealed it for me. The last exercise was driving the bowl at 120 ish mph. It was a bit weird and not that interesting to be honest, but both cars were whisper quiet at speed.

We then went back to the building and got presented at for an hour or so. I didn't really learn much as I'd already geeked out about the car for hours on the internet. The technical expert wasn't very expert in my opinion but he was a good presenter. Nas the brand manager was there too and she was informative but still very cagey and a bit grumpy about when we would get the cars.

We then got a lift back to the car park. Overall is was a really well organised and run event that I enjoyed immensely.

As for Macca993's question. This car will get under your skin, it was simply wonderful in almost every way. The manual box was a horror, but other than that I'm struggling to find fault. These cars were effectively prototypes that have been thrashed to within an inch of their lives for the last few months but they felt solid and good quality. I got back in my Audi and the little b'stod rattled all the way home, I didn't hear anything from the Giulias.
 
#14 ·
Thanks for your insights Nick. Stuff like this just makes me even more excited. Im not looking for a "perfect" car, to the contrary Im finding too much of the product coming from Porsche and the other brands these days has become dull due to is relentless pursuit of "perfection". That why every time I read in comparisons criticisms that the engine likes to be revved out to make best power (a bit peaky compared to other turbo implementations) or that the traction control isnt as well polished as it could be, or that with the ZF8 you need to be in higher rpm to get the rifle bolt report from the exhaust on an upshift - it just makes me smile and become even more hopeful this is a car that can give some soul back to 4 door sports sedan driving (not to be confused with dynamic compromise - something I sound it to be with my test drive of a new F80 M3 in 2014). The 911 was never a perfect machine (though its become more of one recently - my 991 GT3 with DMS race headers is hard to fault in any way) but that was part of the appeal for real drivers. It didnt do the 911 any harm, actually the dynamics could be used to your advantage if you knew how and the car become legend. The QV doesnt need to be perfect, its just needs to be bloody good whilst looking bloody brilliant, sounding excellent and creating an experience that makes it unique. If no one buys it all the better as it will be even more unique and eventually coveted! This is a poor mans Ferrari 4 door in the making or an Italian hotrod. If its half as good as my old E39 M5 it will be fantastic, but i suspect it will be twice as good so even better.
 
#22 ·
Im not looking for a "perfect" car ... This is a Ferrari 4 door in the making or an Italian hotrod. If its half as good as my old E39 M5 it will be fantastic, but i suspect it will be twice as good so even better.
I adore my 166 Super. I've owned it for eleven of its sixteen years. I did 350 miles in it today and it's just as good as it ever was.

At Millbrook, the blast up the 1 mile straight was really fast but so what? Doing 120mph round the banked loop was a little unnerving but ultimately pretty dull. The few minutes around the Alpine route left me buzzing and swearing at my brother about how much I hate him (because he's placed an order already). The Giulia loves to be driven in a way that I've only ever experienced with the 166. I want one so much it hurts.
 
#15 ·
Thanks Barry. Appreciated. Did any of the interiors have the deviated colour scheme (i.e. red or cream inserts)? Curious as to how they look in real life and is they add any "class" to the interior finish or help give some sense of sportiness or opulence? Im still in the fence about whether to go with the "black hole" effect or break things up with the cream inserts and give it a bit of '90s Ferrari 355 appeal. Im not a huge fan of the red stitching (busy) and prefer the white (although it comes with the green tracer thread - tho that does seem relatively low key next to the silver thread in the photos Ive seen). Sorry for all the questions but stuf here in Downunder land you boys are the only english speaking non motor noters I know that have yet had any close range hands on...
 
#18 ·
The only thing I would say is that the black doesn't look black at all, more like a dark grey, especially when you compare it to the black of the infotainment screen. Similar in fact to the colour of the leather in my 159, which was meant to be black but is definitely dark grey!

I will of course bow to the opinion of others who were there and who undoubtedly have younger and sharper eyes than me!
 
#26 ·
thanks for all the reviews guys and some interesting reading. Glad everybody seems to have had a fantastic day

But why oh why do Alfa continue to drop clangers. For gods sake the uk is only going the get the Quadrafoglio in auto, so why bother turning up in a car that the uk wont get. its madness. Surely they could of at least bought a couple of auto Quadrafoglio's. Did they tell any of you going beforehand that the Quadrafoglio was going to be a manual box?
 
#29 ·
Yep, I was disappointed initially, but tbh I've read so many reviews of the QV I feel as if I pretty much already know what I'm getting, although obviously the test drive was awesome, notwithstanding the manual box which was as notchy as the one in my 159!

I don't think there's many QV autos out there in LHD and of course the RHD doesn't exist yet.

I learnt more from working the ZF box in the diesel and the auto in the QV does seem like it will take the car to another level.
 
#27 ·
If you had been there I don't think you would have anything negative to say about the experience, these were pre production models, there were several of them and at the same time they are doing events around the UK. This is probably the most extensive lead up to a launch they have done. The opportunity to be one of the first "potential customers" to drive a Giulia in the UK was worth it.
 
#30 ·
no I'm sure it was a great experience and that's why I started with glad everyone had a great day.

Just feel, a couple of auto Quadrafoglios should have been there as that is what the uk will get.

There is another reason I said this. Anyone see the article in autocar against the C63. Alfa asked them not to do any performance tests so not performance figures were published and autocar then reported that the car didn't feel as fast as the figures suggest? So my thoughts are, are the performance figures released for the auto, not the manual?

For those who drove it did it fell like a 3.9 seconds 0-60 car?
 
#31 ·
I have read two independent tests that report the 0-100 with the manual as 3.9 & 3.97 (from memory). However the only way you are going to replicate those numbers on any type of regular basis is with the 8ZF I suspect. I have spoken to two customers who have driven the cars in Europe on a dealer test drive and one has driven both box and reinforces the 8ZF is the better match - 8 rations, closer stacked, keeps the engine on the boil and very smooth in auto mode whilst punchy on the paddles in dynamic & race. Im quietly glad we got the 8ZF in RHD even though it was the manual box that originally attracted me to the car. Driving a LHD in manual however isnt a very good way to experience the shift dynamics I wouldnt have thought, a LHD 8ZF would have been a better comparo...

here is the Italian review. Interestingly they report 3.9 as the 0-100 which seems contrived although the rest of their data seems as if they tested it. The 3.97 is from a german review I did not make a copy of....
 

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#32 ·
I believe the car can do 100 kp/h in 3.9 seconds but I think that time is auto with launch control. If I'm brutally honest, the car didn't feel ridiculously quick to me. While definitely faster, it didn't feel a competely different league to my S3. I didn't care though, it's so much more than an engine and it is still way too fast for British roads.

Can't remember where I read it but someone was talking about M3s and saying that the early ones like the e30 were chassis cars, not particularly quick but setup very nicely. While the later ones are engine cars, where the chassis may be ok, but the car is all about the massive engine. The QV felt like a chassis and an engine car to me. If you want to go as fast as possible in a straight line buy an RS6 performance. The QV has a lot more about it than 0-60 times.
 
#33 ·
See Nick, there is where my problem is, the Quadrafoglio should have felt like its in a different league to the S3, engine wise

its nice to see you were honest enough to post that, so kudos to you.

I just wish they would have given you and the others that went an auto , even m ore so since you have an order in for one. That way you guys could have reported the difference between the boxes and whether the auto felt quicker.
 
#34 ·
See Nick, there is where my problem is, the Quadrafoglio should have felt like its in a different league to the S3, engine wise.

its nice to see you were honest enough to post that, so kudos to you.
I think Nick's referring to ... no I don't know what Nick's referring to. The QV was much much much much much quicker than my GT 3.2 and it's been demonstrated that's very similar performance to his S3 (both have around 200 bhp/tonne compared to the Giulia's 300+).

The S3 will get to sixty in 4.5 secs so you're only pulling 10% more Gs in a QV. Maybe that's what he's talking about but that's more related to transmission and the amount of rubber available.

I think the main reason that Nick didn't think the Giulia was that fast is cause he was too chicken to press the loud pedal ... he was holding up the diesel behind at one point.
 
#35 ·
No complaints about the 4C hot lap drivers today: Martin Donnelly and Andy Wallace
 
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