Paddle shifters only ?

[mikester]

For the 4C, that is. .

I'd read this in one of the stories somewhere. Hoping this isn't correct or that Alfa will change their minds. Is this of concern to you in your thoughts about this car ?

Personally I still like the old "stick and clutch", but haven't had much experience with paddle shifters, particularly Italian ones. I recall J Clarkson complaining like mad about the first-gen Quattroporte's transmission, but IIRC Maserati got the subsequent version sorted ?

[ricky1750]

Every news reports just paddle shift... bear in mind the 4C is what Alfa Romeo uses to show the most advanced things they have, and this means the TBI engine and TCT gearbox.. hence, the paddles..
Personally i'm not much into sequential boxes, mainly because i do like to be the one who controls the clutch.. i'm also quite concerned about the sound they will able to get (or not to get) from the TBI..
Yes, most of the paddle shift boxes are rubbish... but usually the rubbish ones are single clutch, and this will be a double clutch... the latest italian dual clutch paddle shift box is the 458 italia one... and it's a wonderful piece of hardware, working great.
I tried the TCT on the Giulietta and it works fairly well.. the 4C one is expected to be different, and better, so apart from the fact you won't have a clutch, it should be quite nice.

The Quattroporte paddle shift is quite terrible (as pretty much all the one installed on Maserati up to the Coupe GranSport) because it was still in the young development period of them... mind, even Ferrari paddle shift were not something to dream of, the first one working nicely was the 430 (and 612) installed ones (though the 360 one started to be something working rather ok).

[mikester]

Very interesting - Grazie molte !

[davidjwbailey]

the real issue is where they put the paddles: if on the wheel, then you are b*ggered if you find a turn with tightening radius, if on the column, you had better learn the IAM 'shuffle steering' pretty darn fast so your hands stay close to "ten to 2".

Also, block changes are out, you have to got through the box in order, and you are going to take a while to learn the engine note at each speed or you are going to crash while looking for the "what fecking gear am I in?" indicators as you come to a junction...

Apart from that, a fine idea, and one I look forwards to trying out.

[ricky1750]

Originally Posted by mikester

Very interesting - Grazie molte !

no problem

Originally Posted by davidjwbailey

the real issue is where they put the paddles: if on the wheel, then you are b*ggered if you find a turn with tightening radius, if on the column, you had better learn the IAM 'shuffle steering' pretty darn fast so your hands stay close to "ten to 2".

This is very true, expecially coupled with which turning ratio the steering weel will have, but may be not a huge problem.. they have experience on the paddles on other very "spirited" cars, and anyway in very twisty road changing gear with the stick could be more challenging that using the paddle shifts... i just hope the paddles are very different from the ones on the Giulietta because now are more a cosmetic issue than a useful one.. they are very tiny and rather uninispiring to be used.

Originally Posted by mikester

Also, block changes are out, you have to got through the box in order, and you are going to take a while to learn the engine note at each speed or you are going to crash while looking for the "what fecking gear am I in?" indicators as you come to a junction...

Not a real issue after all: you cannot stall the engine, as the car would change gear even in manual mode if you get too low on rpms, and you cannot overrevv the engine as the gearbox will refuse to shift if this is the case... you could find yourself in the wrong gear (in manual mode, in auto it would simply downkick), but then you would feel it and then shift (and with a double clutch you will shift rather fast ). Also the 1750, even the 200bhp is VERY torquey, and feels very smooth even when on my Spider which is pretty much twice the weight the 4C will have... i do not think it will ever risk to be stuck, even on the wrong gear, expecially if you consider you can shift down while keeping the throttle at full (in theory, in practice i think you would get quite some oversteer).

Multiple sequential downshift in circuit, or very spirited drive, can be helped by putting a downshift logic as the 599: you brake, keep the downshift paddle pressed withouth releasing it, and until you keep the paddle pressed the car downshift, also throttle blipping, as needed in fast sequence, until you release the paddle.

[davidjwbailey]

ooooh! automatic downshifts? now I really want one (sorry, last experience as a 156 Selespeed. Best forgotten)

[ricky1750]

Originally Posted by davidjwbailey

ooooh! automatic downshifts?

Not saying it will have, but it does exist

Originally Posted by davidjwbailey

now I really want one (sorry, last experience as a 156 Selespeed. Best forgotten)

Todays sequential boxes work much better than the 156 Selespeed (mainly because of the development on all the years that have passed), even when single cluth... and dual clutch is a world apart... it hugely faster (and smooth), as in the end you're NOT shifting: when you ask the gearbox to "shift" it has already shifted (i.e. the next gear is already engaged), you just engage the primary or secondary clutch as needed.
Think at a manual box.. the difference is as in "release clutch, change gear, engage clutch" and "release clutch, engage clutch".
You actually almost do no even feel the gear change happening, if you're accellerating you see it happen but it really feels almost as a single, smooth, continuos accelleration.

[stuartmunn]

Ferrari have done away with manual gearchanges! so if its good enough for them, then why not Alfa. If its as good as the one I tried on the new Mercedes B series, it will be excellent.

[mikester]

Originally Posted by stuartmunn

Ferrari have done away with manual gearchanges! so if its good enough for them, then why not Alfa. If its as good as the one I tried on the new Mercedes B series, it will be excellent.

Have they ? wow - interesting. Obviously F1 has gone this way for quite some time, but I didn't know Ferrari's road cars are all semi-automatics, as well.

I suppose it's simply an adjustment in thinking. The first time I tried a shifter kart (which is sequential - push-push, pull-pull motorcycle-type transmission), I was horrible, I just couldn't get my head around it. I was doing everything wrong and couldn't wait to get back to the pits. The second time, I thought it was incredible and couldn't get enough.

[ricky1750]

yes, 458, 599, FF are paddle shift only... guess 430 Scuderia too, but not 100% sure about that... the new V12 beast, we'll find out in a few days

[davidjwbailey]

Bodes well: http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...ml#post4706111 (Honest John's TCT review)

Irritates me that we still have to wait 18months before any of us can even consider getting our hands on one

[davidjwbailey]

Also review of TCT in AutoItalia (April) is fairly glowing as well. Wonder how many reviews I will need to read to fill a year and a half of waiting?

[FoxtrotOscar]

Let's just hope that in 18 months' time TCT is not declared "son of Selespeed"...