Re: Suds & Historic Rallying
"Originally Posted by RSFruitbat
I know what you mean about the twin carbs. At the end of the day if it was fitted as standard and produced in large numbers why cant they run ? I dont see them banning injection or 16 valve engines All I can say is that when I spoke to the original organiser he said he would allow me to run if I built a 1.3 Ti. That was before the success of the Lombard though and 2/3 yrs ago!
Thanks for the nice comments on my 33 .
Originally posted by Andy97:
These are the regs for Historic Road Rallying in the UK now, and I note that the forthcoming Lombard Endurance Rally is allowing in Historic Rally cars in conforming to these regs. Note that category 3 Historic cars are pre-81 and must conform to the FIA Hologation for Groups 1-3:
Historic Road Rally Cars
MSA Blue Book Road Rally Technical Regulations Section H Starting on page 283
102. In addition to complying with Section C(b) all cars
competing in Road Rallies must comply with the
appropriate part of the following:
103. Bodywork must represent the manufacturer’s
original profile and may include any optional extras
available directly from the manufacturer. Bumpers must
be fitted. Paintwork must be one colour or
manufacturer’s original colour scheme. No primer is to
104. Vehicles must not have wheel arch extensions,
unless fitted by the manufacturer as a standard item to
the body shape. All major internal trim as fitted to the
body type by its original manufacturer when offering it
for sale must be retained. This trim will include
headlinings, inside door panels, carpets and rear seats.
Front seats may be improved or replaced. The trim,
including the rear seat may be cut to allow the fitting of
a safety cage. If equipped with a non standard fuel
tank it must be separated from the driver/passenger
compartment by a protective bulkhead of
non-inflammable material preventing the passage of
fluid or flame.
105. Full harness seat belts may be fitted and guards
may be fitted beneath the vehicle to provide protection
106. Vehicle engines must have:
(a) A maximum of four cylinders.
(b) Two carburettor chokes (two single or one
(c) One camshaft per bank of cylinders.
(d) Engines with more than one camshaft per bank of
cylinders may be used providing that they were
originally fitted with fuel injection and that the fuel
injection system complete with plenum chamber and
throttle body is retained unmodified.
(e) Forced induction is not permitted.
107. Fuel injection may be fitted where it was standard
equipment by the manufacturer for that engine type
and where the original plenum chamber and throttle
body is retained for that engine type. A standard
Wankel unit will be considered as three cylinders – twin
Wankel units are prohibited.
108. Engines must comply with the silencing levels
B 65, C(b)-23 and 12-14 and have induction air filter
elements fitted that ensure the vehicle complies with
noise regulations C(b)-23.
Wheels and Tyres
109. Wheels and tyres are free but must fit within
the standard unmodified wheel arch. Vehicles
must be fitted with tyres that are always legal for use
on the public highway. All moulded slick tyres are
prohibited including those listed as FIA Approved
Moulded Slick Tyres. Vehicles should have all spare
wheels securely fastened in position and should
not be fitted with spiked or studded tyres or any
non-skid attachments, other than chains if Permitted
110. Vehicles must have a maximum of four forward
facing beams, as well as side and indicator lights,
unless further restrictions are specified in SRs. Light
pods are not permitted.
111. A headlamp must provide the main beam and
dipped beam functions. An auxiliary lamp can provide
a beam other than that provided by the headlamp. A
headlamp may consist of a single reflector with a dual
filament bulb, or separate reflectors each with single
filament bulbs providing the functions of main beam
and dipped beam separately. This will be considered
as equivalent to a single dual filament headlamp unit.
Lamp units comprising two reflectors where one is
fitted with a dual filament bulb will be considered as
a combined headlamp and auxiliary lamp. In this
instance therefore no additional auxiliary lamps may
112. Auxiliary lamps using gas discharge technology
are not Permitted and gas discharge headlamp units
may not be retrofitted. Where more than four beams
are fitted as standard, only four may be used and the
remainder must be rendered unusable for the duration
of the event.
113. Auxiliary lights must not be used in neutral
sections except in poor visibility as permitted by law.
Vehicles must have all lights fitted and used according
to motor vehicle lighting regulations. External
navigational or Marshal lights are not permitted.
114. The vehicle must be currently registered and taxed
as a Private Car and comply with all statutory
regulations as to the Construction and Use regulations
(especially regarding brakes, lighting, tyres, warning
devices, rear view mirrors, silencers, speedometers,
wings and windscreens).
115. Vehicles may not use racing style numbers unless
otherwise stated in SRs, nor have any advertising
except for event sponsor decals which must be
incorporated within the rally plate. They should be
equipped with an effective method of stopping fuel
supply, operable by the Driver when normally seated
(the ignition switch would normally cover this
requirement) and use pump fuel as defined in
Brakes are free but must comply with
Construction and Use Regulations.
116. For all road events, the use of global positioning
systems or any other type of position determining
device is prohibited and will be penalised in
accordance with 84(p). Exceptionally, the SRs for
Navigation Rallies and Navigational Scatters may
Permit their use.
Historic Rally Cars
117. Historic Category 1 Road Rally Cars must have
been registered before 1 January 1968 and comply
with 108, 109, 110-113, 114-116 and 123.
118. Historic Category 2 Road Rally Car must have
been registered between 1 January 1968 and 31
December 1974 and comply with 102 to 116 inclusive
[see also 123].
119. Historic Category 3 Road Rally Cars must have
been registered between 1 January 1975 and 31
December 1981, comply with their FIA Group 1 or 3
homologation papers, and comply with 102-116
inclusive [see also 123]. They can compete for their
own awards only, and they will not be included in the
overall or Class results.
120. Cars in categories 1, 2 and 3 registered after the
appropriate date may be Permitted, provided that
documentary evidence is submitted to the MSA to
show that the specific car (not model) was
manufactured within the specified period. This
evidence should include any technical documentation
supplied by the manufacturer, documents relative to the
vehicle, information available concerning chassis and
engine numbers and similar details from reliable and
authenticated sources. On receipt of satisfactory
evidence the MSA will issue a Historic Vehicle Identity
Form which must be presented at scrutineering with
the registration document. All cars in Category 3 are
required to have a valid Historic Vehicle Identity Form to
which the relevant FIA Homologation forms must be
121. Only period modifications used in rallying on the
particular make and model of car are Permitted for
Historic Road Rally Cars. Modifications are only
allowed if they were available before 1 January 1968 in
the case of Historic Category 1 Road Rally Cars, before
1 January 1975 in the case of Historic Category 2 Road
Rally Cars, and only homologated modifications before
31 December 1981 in the case of Historic Category 3
Road Rally Cars.
• Roof vents are only permitted subject to the above.
122. Along with the mandatory requirements of 21.5(a),
classes can be introduced based on capacity and/or
age of vehicle. It is recommended that they be the
same as for Historic Stage Rallies.
123. Certain waivers may be available for cars entered
in Historic Road Rallies run solely for vehicles
manufactured before 1 January 1942. The MSA may
also grant discretionary waivers for Historic Category 2
and 3 Road Rally Cars in respect of 106(a), (b) and (c).
Application for these waivers should be made to the
MSA regarding a specific event, giving full details of the
waivers sought. Any such waivers will be exclusive to
an individual Motor Club and a nominated event.
124. Forced induction is Permitted if by means of a
mechanically driven supercharger, or by an exhaust
driven turbocharger if fitted as original equipment by
the vehicle manufacturer. Such cars will be classified as
having an engine capacity increased by one third.
125. Induction air filter elements must be fitted that
ensure the vehicle complies with noise regulations
C(b)-23. Exceptionally, and with the permission of the
Chief Scrutineer, those cars for which 5,000rpm is
inappropriate may be tested at 3/4 of maximum rpm.
Wheels, Tyres and Brakes
126. Vehicles must always be fitted with tyres that are
legal for use on the public highway. The size of the
wheel may not differ from that originally fitted by more
than 10% on nominal diameter, and by 1 inch (25.4mm)
on nominal width. The resultant track measurement
must not differ from the original by more than 1 inch.
Rims must not exceed 6 inches. The minimum
diameter Permitted is 15 inches, unless a smaller
diameter was fitted as original equipment. The tyre
section, as marked on the side wall in millimetres or
inches, must not differ by more than 1 inch (25.4mm)
from that originally fitted. The fitting of tyres with an
aspect ratio of less than 70% is prohibited.
127. The fitting of a dual master cylinder, or any other
type of device providing a simultaneous action on all
four wheels and divided action on two wheels, is
permitted, provided the original brake pedal and pivot
point are used and they cannot be adjusted to affect
brake balance by either the Driver or the Co-Driver
when normally seated in the car.
128. Vehicles must not use racing style numbers unless
allowed in the SRs, nor carry advertising other than
event sponsor decals. Pump fuel must be used as
defined in The Terminology.
Endurance Road Rally
129. These vehicles must comply with 102-116 and the
• Standard production specification engines limited
to 1400cc petrol and 2000cc diesel are Permitted.
Forced induction is prohibited
• The exhaust system is free but must retain the
original exhaust manifold. Where originally fitted with a
catalytic converter, the standard part must be retained
• The transmission must be as originally fitted to the
model of vehicle. Any changes to the gearbox or final
drive are prohibited
• The suspension type and mountings must remain
the same as that fitted by the manufacturer. The
shock absorbers may be of any make and may be
uprated from standard. Adjustable spring platform
struts are Permitted. The mounting method and
position must remain as specified by the
manufacturer. Springs are free but must retain their
original location. Bushes may be changed for similar
polymer materials, but rose-joints or similar metal
joints are prohibited
• Vehicles must be fitted with rollover protection to
C(c)-Appendix 2, Drawing 1 and seat belts to
• Brake fluid, pads and linings, and stone protection
• For daylight Endurance Road Rallies it is Permitted
to fit a sunstrip of no more than 90mm deep which
may display the manufacturer’s make or model, or
the name of the event, or a recognised Motor Club, or
a registered national charity, provided that this does
not affect the Driver’s view.
Specific Regulations for
Special Stage Rallies
The twin choke per carb rule still stands and that still rules out Suds, sadly. A great shame as that would be of interest to a fair few of us, I'd have thought.
Out of interest, the curent entry list for the 2008 Lombard rally is here:
The Lombard Rally - Entry List