Sprint 6C build up - Page 27 - Alfa Romeo Forum
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

It's no tablet of stone I know, but don't forget that Alfa have already fitted this engine in the back using a cooling system just like the one 'sixnut is proposing so I would imagine that it has a decent chance of working. In fact, the original 6C had an engine cover too, so wasn't free to radiate directly through the louvres like 'sixnut's car will.
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

i remember having a noble in at work a few years back to fit a battery which sat low down almost on the floor pan in front of the engine (rear engine), anyway i seem to think it had a completely flat & closed in floor
it had the ford v6 with twin turbo's so the heat generated would be far more than yours will generate, might be worth checking it out? if i am right then you should have no problems really

was a hell of a fast car though
 
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

When the engine is in the normal front position there is no where for the hot air to go either. In this country during the summer its 45degC and my V6 will sit in traffic all day long without problem, cooled only by the radiator and fan.

I think you are in a better position with the vented screen, can you fit the metal impeller water pump from the GTV V6? or an additional small electric pump to help circulate the water?
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

Hi Sixnut,
Think I would 'suck it and see' a bit on the cooling there is a big heat soak just in the water it will take an age to warm up. A long time ago I ran a Skoda 136 rapid and a couple of tricks I used on that might help. First run a high % of decent antifreeze as it raises the boiling point, second fit a lower temp kick in fan switch - a few hours with the intermotor book does the trick and this can help keep things under control.
The other thing is to fit a big heater !
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

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Originally Posted by Alfasixnut View Post
I calculated that the extra 4 m pipework of 4 cm ID will contain an extra 5 litres of water.(Pie x r squared x length 3.1 x 2 x 2 x 400 = 4960 cm cubed = 5 litres) The pump may not circulate quite as much water per second due to the extra mass and internal friction of the water - but the inceased surface area of the pipework will act to increase the heat loss overall - so I think it will be ok.
The other question is how hot the engine bay will get ie how effective will the spoiler and louvres be? - Spacenut - thoughts?
Absolutely agree - I've found that the extra pipework aids the engine cooling, by effectively increasing the radiator surface area. I was concerned about cooling too, as everyone had these horror stories about air locks and why didn't I put the radiator in the back... like they actually knew anything!

So I put two cooling fans on the Sud radiator wired in parallel. I needn't have bothered - on 150+ mile runs up the M1 last summer, to MITCAR, the Pod, Stanford Hall etc., the fans don't actually come on at all. Ram air flow through the radiator (and out of the extractors on the bonnet) does it all. My radiator pipes run through the sills, so do not receive any forced air flow. The engine bay is open at the bottom and scavenges underbody airflow, which as you correctly point out is then drawn up through the louvres. This is due in part to convection, but also on the move by low or negative air pressure over the top of the car - it works like an aircraft wing. The open rear panel takes advantage of this to suck the hot air through the engine bay, and the slats help to smooth the airflow, limiting turbulence, and provide a modicum of protection from the elements.

I can't see your cooling requirements being any more critical than the original 6C, which must have done a few development miles if Alfa were considering manufacture... Just make sure you can bleed out the air locks (mount header tank higher than engine and radiator, and if pipes run under the floor and then up to the radiator, have a bleed valve on top of the rad to remove any air locks in the matrix - I used domestic radiator bleed valves on mine!)

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Re: Sprint 6C build up

Thanks all for your input - there is so much expertise that is being shared on here
It really is
Greatly appreciated
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

I'd just like to say that I wasn't having a go at anyone here regarding radiator placement, so please don't take offence. The advice I received to put my radiator in the back of the car was from so-called marque "experts", and not the lay-community. I understand how placing the radiator as close to the engine could be considered a sensible way forward, but such systems (like the flank-mounted radiators on modern Ferraris and the rear-mount systems on certain Lamborghinis... and the Hillman Imp) often work in spite of their placement, not because of it.

The best position for a radiator in this type of mid-engined car has got to be up front. With a relatively short wheelbase, there is no need to be concerned about keeping a low polar moment of inertia (PMOI) by keeping all of the masses within the wheelbase. In fact I suspect you may need a higher PMOI in order to prevent the Sprint turning into a Lancia Stratos (which was notoriously twitchy to drive ).

Regarding water pumps, I haven't found any issues running the stock pump with a remote radiator, using 32mm pipes, but there is a precedent for this in the FIAT X1/9, which used a FWD engine in the middle with a front mounted radiator.

Excellent progress, as always!

Lauren
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

More progress around the front of the rear wheel. I needed to build more strength in that area so I have inserted another length of box section on the inside of the inner sill running forward about 40 cm and plug welded at the front. Then some more of my louvre (slats) steel has linked it to the 164 inner wing. The welding is ugly but it has passed the "hammer test".
Then I looked at the sill - and the 6C pics - and the plastic 164 Sill covers......
a bit of work with the angle grinder and......
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

That looks messy Philip but needs to be done

Once you are working on that area, why dont you make some clearance for the alternator as well ? I can see it hiding in the back there
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

Plastic sill covers look as they came with the car !!
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

More work inside the rear wheel arch - and yes the remains of the panda tailgate have been used!
I have also plated the width of the boot floor down to the 2" box section cross member - with the remains of the louvre off cuts!
I also have 3 out of 4 sections of the 164 front wheel arch plastic liners which I will be using.
Whilst grubbing around in the wheel arches I realised that the handbrake cable was tight on one side - so they came off again - and one side is longer than the other! So I'm having to re-position the inside anchor plate to give an extra couple of inches.
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

progress just keeps on coming !!!

Keep it up sixnut, almost there
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

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Originally Posted by Supercharged16v View Post
progress just keeps on coming !!!

Keep it up sixnut, almost there
Thanks Supercharged
- It has been a couple of good days, but will be away for a week so needed to crack on
- still much to do though - all the same work on the other side!!
Then when the sills are mega strong I will be taking the windscreen out to rebuild those lower corners.......
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

yeah you havent touched that front end yet.

I dont think it will be as hard as the rear.

Will you also make the front fenders wider like the original and put wheel spacers ?
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

Philip you have been nominated in the Car of the year 2009 thread.

I hope you dont mind
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

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Philip you have been nominated in the Car of the year 2009 thread.

I hope you dont mind
That's fine Supercharged - I'm flattered
Now I will have to work even harder......
Oh and the front fenders and wheels will remain as standard (at least for a while) the rear and front wheels on the original 6C were wider than mine (235/205) so I am maintaining the rear/front ratio(205/185) with my narrower rear wheels.

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Re: Sprint 6C build up

I had hoped to collect my new exhaust system today, but it won't now be ready until Tuesday. So had a day off!
Well not quite as I bought some more welding wire - but I bought a 5kg reel and will try to rewind it onto my small 700gm reels - it should make the wire cheaper and I've still got lots of welding to do.
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

Dont we all ?
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

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I had hoped to collect my new exhaust system today, but it won't now be ready until Tuesday. So had a day off!
Well not quite as I bought some more welding wire - but I bought a 5kg reel and will try to rewind it onto my small 700gm reels - it should make the wire cheaper and I've still got lots of welding to do.
won't the welder take the reel as it is? mine came with the small reels but i noticed in the instructions that it could take the bigger reel

works out a lot cheaper than buying those small reels, and far less chance of running out at an awkwrad moment
 
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

Kev - my welder is Really small so only takes the small reels. But I've sucessfully wound two small reels now on my garage see saw!
I've also been tidying up the tailgate louvres on both sides and along the top, still got the finishing touches to do, but its nearly there.
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

neat way to transfer the wire though
 
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

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neat way to transfer the wire though
The prospect of more wire has frightened my welder to death and it has packed up now - terminally! So I need to buy a new/another one after our holiday....
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

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The prospect of more wire has frightened my welder to death and it has packed up now - terminally! So I need to buy a new/another one after our holiday....
can highly recommend this one

Pro 90 MIG Welder - Machine Mart

done me proud on the sud, easy to use, comes with the regulator and a bottle of gas, wire, face shield (cheapo useless one admitedly) the lot, even takes the bigger wire spools

shame you're not a bit closer, i have a discount voucher for vat free from the lincoln branch

Last edited by kevjtd; 11-04-09 at 13:03.
 
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

Thanks Kev - I was going through your thread to find what you had been using! It is now on order... thanks for offer of discount voucher but distance is a problem....
Still, it should be waiting for me on our return from holiday
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Re: Sprint 6C build up

I use a Clarke 110 turbo and it has had some use. For budget machines you can't get better and they take the big rolls so that will save you some time
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