1.7 gearbox.

[SpeedyT]

Hi again. Just need to know if the gearboxes are the same, 1.5 and 1.7 boxer. Are they interchangable. Also, are the drive shafts the same? Thanks for all the feedback.

[PETR0LHEAD]

Hi T

yes they are interchangeable, (you are talking about for the pictured 1985 33 aren't you?)

if you are using a 1.7 33 or late sprint gearbox, that had outboard brakes, not inboards like the earlier suds, then should be no drama with the fit or the driveshafts i beleive, the casing should be pretty much identical except for the latest 1.7 33's because of the fuel injection demands, they will still fit but do have some small differences.

you might find if sufficiently later the 1.7 gearbox has a sensor for the speedo, and not a mechanical drive, but these are swappable,

as for the drive ratio's, there is some info on here about that, Keithy put a liink to it in another thread not long ago, titled something like "gearbox choices", have a look in there and you'll find it i'm sure,

cheers

shrew

[SteffenJ3316V]

All 33s have electronic speedo. The 1,7 gearbox is has a higher ratio than the 1,5 if its from a S2 QV.

[PETR0LHEAD]

there you go,

i knew someone would know! ha ha!

[SpeedyT]

Thanks guys. I have purchased a 1988 33 with twin webers that may need a gearbox or clutch. The gearbox that I know is available is off a 1990? 33 with injection. Did they fit webers on 1.7 engines? I also purchased a 33 wagon with all wheel drive. Is this a common model? It seems to be all there except for the twin webers and head lights.

[PETR0LHEAD]

yeah loads of 1.7 8v motors had carbs, either weber idf 40's or dellorto drla 40's were commonly found on the 1.7 lumps, mostly on later sprints and the like.

not the 16 valves though, they were all injection unless modified with adaptor manifolds, something i'm going to have a go at myself soon hopefully!

[SpeedyT]

Thanks Petrolhead. Which is better: 1.5 8v, or 1.7 8v? I want to keep the webers.

[PETR0LHEAD]

sorry speedy, are we talking motor or gearbox still?

either way, i'm afraid to say, i'm 1.7 all the way.

the motors are a peach on 40mm carbs, and gearbox wise, i like the taller ratios, because they suit me, not everyone, but they do me.

i'm 95% on the road, not the track, often not alone, and like to use the higher gears, 3rd onwards with the 1.7 torque, rather than scream the poor thing in every gear!

i've too much mechanical sympathy for that these days, and good boxes are getting harder to find, so i tend to look after the ones i've got.

shrew

[SpeedyT]

You and I sound very similar. Since purchasing the 85 Alfa 33 1.5, I have bought a 88 Alfa 33 1.7, and an Alfa 33 all wheel drive wagon. My original car will most likely provide parts for the other 2. Will the 1.5 gearbox work OK on the 1.7 until I can repair the original or source another one?

[PETR0LHEAD]

Yeah i'm sure the 1.5 box would be fine, in fact, looking here (another place you should be as a 33 man i have to say)

Alfa Pages :: Index

the gear ratios are the same, and although quite close, only the final diff ratio seems to be a little different, and it is a little, so i think you'd be hard pushed to notice the difference really.

[SpeedyT]

Thanks. I apreciate you help.

[PETR0LHEAD]

good luck mate, i hope it turns out well

shrew

[SpeedyT]

Just one more question. I have brought home both Alfa's today, the 1.7 and the 4WD wagon. Is it easier to drop the gerabox out separately, or lift the motor and box out as a unit? I will be putting the 1.5 gearbox in the 1.7 car.

[PETR0LHEAD]

general consensus is to drop the lot, or at least lower it enough to make gearbox removal very easy, otherwise the bolts around to top side of the bell housing etc are pretty tough to get at.

at least your cars are carb'd, the injections are a plumbing and wiring snake pit in comparison and take a bit more thinking about and a fair bit more time!

you'll be fine i'm sure mate, but good luck anyway,

shrew

[dave33]

I have done the gearbox replacement job both ways. While it is generally recommended to drop the whole motor & gearbox it is possible and potentially quicker to drop the gearbox out from the back. It is also slightly harder work :-) Note this doesn't work with a car with power steering, the steering rack fouls the gearbox - been there, done that !!

If dropping the box out the back, you need to take the distributor cap & rotor off first otherwise it will get broken as the engine tilts back. Lining everything up and getting a reluctant box back on a sloping engine from under the car is do-able, but can either go easy or really hard if things aren't quite properly lined up.

The gearbox on the 1.7 will almost inevitably be a 3.7 final dive ratio. The 1.5s are generally a 3.88 ratio. To know for certain, you can take the base plate off the box and count the teeth on the crown wheel & pinion. (e.g. 37t and 10t 37/10=3.7)

I have a 1989 S2 33 with a 3.88 box running a 1.7 carbied engine, and it works well. The 3.88 box is not as "long" as the 3.7, and I find it a better compromise, except perhaps for very long high speed running on motorways. Being geared down a little, it gives the car a little more "zip".

If you have the box off, do check the clutch while you are in there, nothing worse than finding out after a few weeks that it needs work too. If you do, try to get hold of an old 33/sud gearbox input shaft to line up the clutch assembly. Make sure that it can slide in & out freely, otherwise the gearbox is a complete pig to reunite with the engine.

Very best of luck with the job.

Cheers
David F

[SpeedyT]

Thanks Dave. I will try and get the box out on it's own. Let ya know how it goes.

[SpeedyT]

I got part way through, and am unable to do the job without stuffing something. I offically suck at fixing cars. If someone wants to come and finish it for me, I will be very glad to pay you. Thanks for all the advice. Like most things, this job sounds fairly easy and straight forward. Unfortunately, it is my ability that is letting me down yet again.

[kevjtd]

Originally Posted by SpeedyT

I got part way through, and am unable to do the job without stuffing something. I offically suck at fixing cars. If someone wants to come and finish it for me, I will be very glad to pay you. Thanks for all the advice. Like most things, this job sounds fairly easy and straight forward. Unfortunately, it is my ability that is letting me down yet again.

how much will a flight cost you? i don't mind coming over

could do with a holiday

i'd be inclined to just drop the lot out as one to save the aggro, easier to get it back together then if you've not done many before

[SpeedyT]

Started dropping the engine as well. It's a good thing I am in no hurry, coz this may take some time. Plus I got a cold on saturday, so sunday wasn't so good. Hopefully I will get it all out next weekend. Then have to get motor and box out of second car. And then when gearbox is in the first car, I have a third car to sort out. And to make it worse, we are entering winter. Timing could not have been worse.

[dave33]

Best of luck, and be careful lowering the combined weight of motor and box. It is damn heavy !!
These are the sorts of jobs that you can do on your own, if you are careful, but are so much easier with a mechanically inclined mate to help. (And is even worse when you have a cold)

Cheers & good luck !

[kevjtd]

when i lower the whole assembly down i leave the 2 M8 (13mm spanner sized) bolts in at the tail end of the gearbox then it's just a case of lowering it all down without the worry of it moving forward ar backwards. then when the fronts on the ground you can lower the back end down.

same goes for re-fitting, jack the tail up and loosely bolt the gearbox end to the floor then lift the rest up, no worries about forward or backwards movement

[PETR0LHEAD]

there speaks the man of much experience!

[SpeedyT]

Thanks for that. I have been sick this past week, and it is getting cold. As I am lazy, I am getting my cousin to come and "learn' how to do it for me.

[PETR0LHEAD]

ha ha! sounds like an even better plan.

i'm sure Kev would like a quick trip to Aus', and he'd have it done in a jiffy!

keep us informed,

shrew