1600 16V rebuild

sprint337 · #1 (**Post Link**) 10-03-12

Some pics from rebuilding a new 1600 16V engine, which may be of interest for some of you..

Old block was destroyed though a broken con rod in octobre 2011. So I had to begin with an used block from an 145 1,6ie, a new crank with 67,2 mm stroke, new con rods and new forged pistons..

sprint337 · #2 (**Post Link**) 10-03-12

More pics..

sprint337 · #3 (**Post Link**) 10-03-12

adjusting cam timing and that´s it..;-)

RSFruitbat · #4 (**Post Link**) 10-03-12

Hi sprint337.

engine build looks good. I had a conrod let go like that a while ago. As the oil gallery and waterway hadnt been damaged I managed to repair the block which saved me a lot of aggro. Used the engine for many years after.
I see you have gone for steel rods. Do you mind saying how much they were?

What will you rev engine to now?

All the best

rsfruitbat

sprint337 · #5 (**Post Link**) 11-03-12

Originally Posted by RSFruitbat

I see you have gone for steel rods. Do you mind saying how much they were?

one rod was about 270 GBP

Originally Posted by RSFruitbat

What will you rev engine to now?

around 8000 rpm last year

Pascs · #6 (**Post Link**) 11-03-12

the 16v boxer really is a beautiful engine

Sprint68 · #7 (**Post Link**) 11-03-12

Looking good my friend... thats a reasonable price for the rods.

Did you hear anything back from Dave @ Brunswick ? I know he is extremely busy right now with 4 boxer engines on the go in addition to my car and the BMW's he runs in the 24 hr events.

Dave will be at the ring this year at some point, you two should try and hook up for a chat.

The crank which was made in error for me was I believe 76.3mm which would have made for around 1780cc (this crank is avaliable if anyone is interested send me a PM).

Out of interest my engine for 2012 should comfortably rev to around 9500rpm, potentially a little more, we won't know for sure until we get her on the rollers on the 6th April.

Good luck with your re build

sprint337 · #8 (**Post Link**) 11-03-12

Originally Posted by Sprint68

Did you hear anything back from Dave @ Brunswick ?

I didnt contact him yet, too busy by myself. My budget is uses up now, as i build 2 Lancia Fulvia and 1 Alfa boxewr engines in tthis winter. So I need a little break now..

Originally Posted by Sprint68

Dave will be at the ring this year at some point, you two should try and hook up for a chat.

May be I can see him at the 24h green hell, when I´m starting with my alfa in the supporting program

Originally Posted by Sprint68

The crank which was made in error for me was I believe 76.3mm which would have made for around 1780cc (this crank is avaliable if anyone is interested send me a PM).

Your crank does not really suit to the classes in my race series, As it gives 1692 cc with 84 mm pistons, 1732 with 85 mm, 1773 c with 86 mm and 1814 cc with 87 mm pistons..

Originally Posted by Sprint68

Out of interest my engine for 2012 should comfortably rev to around 9500rpm, potentially a little more, we won't know for sure until we get her on the rollers on the 6th April.

9500 rpm would be a pain on the ring, as our races have a distance of 312 Km. I would need much bigger tank capacity or a few more pit stopps. So I´m glad with 8000 rpm..

Originally Posted by Sprint68

Good luck with your re build

Thanks, and good luck for you..

RSFruitbat · #9 (**Post Link**) 11-03-12

Thanks for that info.

The rod that broke looks like a standard one?

Have you gone to steel rods now?

Do you use a steel crank aswell?

rsfruitbat

sprint337 · #10 (**Post Link**) 12-03-12

Originally Posted by RSFruitbat

The rod that broke looks like a standard one?

Have you gone to steel rods now?

Do you use a steel crank aswell?

I replaced the broken and lightened standard rod for steel ones. Crank ist still a standard one. Next update would be dry sump and cross drilled steel crank. But I know a guy in switzerland with a 1600 16v engine with standard crank ( and dry sump) in a sprint, which revs up to 10000 rpm and more, without any problems

Greek · #11 (**Post Link**) 12-03-12

Standard crank gets destroyed after 12500 rpms..... This has been tested multiple times as in couple of technical schools here which have boxer engines for students on benches . From what i have been told , they could do damage to the crank only when they exceeded 12k rpms so 10k are fine .....

sprint337 · #12 (**Post Link**) 12-03-12

Main problem at high rpm ist not the crank itself, but the oil feed of the big end bearings, specially no. 2 & 3, which were feed together by the main bearing no 2, when using a not cross drilled crank

1981stallion. · #13 (**Post Link**) 12-03-12

that engine looks awesome

RSFruitbat · #14 (**Post Link**) 12-03-12

Luckily I managed to find one of those engines that had a cross-drilled crank as standard. My old engine I had it done by the machine shop.

I always have all my bottom end balanced aswell

rsfruitbat

brit01 · #15 (**Post Link**) 12-03-12

but the oil feed of the big end bearings, specially no. 2 & 3, which were feed together by the main bearing no 2, when using a not cross drilled crank

same as mine.
Most worn bearings and journals. I measured the mains with plastigauge also and they were between 0.055 and 0.063 like yours.

Polished the crank and new shells in.
But I still need to use 20w/60 oil to get good oil pressure so I guess the crank is on it's limits of wear and fact specs and due to shells 2/3 being fed by same hole.
Cross drilled crank would have been nice like in your case.

Max is 0.063mm in the manual.

Very nice work and love the rods. Not in my budget unfortunately.

sprint337 · #16 (**Post Link**) 12-03-12

Originally Posted by RSFruitbat

Luckily I managed to find one of those engines that had a cross-drilled crank as standard.

Do you know in which engines those cranks can be found..?

brit01 · #17 (**Post Link**) 12-03-12

Do you know in which engines those cranks can be found..

I'd like to know also. I thought it was only on the old 1.5 sud cranks. Hot cranks as they called them.

Then they went cheap and stopped the cross drilling.

RSFruitbat · #18 (**Post Link**) 12-03-12

Mine came out of a 1350cc from an V reg Sud. When I was told about this years ago apparently one of the crank suppliers used to do it so its is complete pot luck as to whether you manage to get one I'm afraid.

Something else I was advised to do by someone who raced was to enlarge the main oil feed to 8mm (I think). The one that runs along the spine of the block.

rsfruitbat

RSFruitbat · #19 (**Post Link**) 12-03-12

Forgot to ask. Are those the Gozzoli vernier cam wheels?

Are they as good as they look?

Were they worth the money?

Did you have any problems getting hold of them?

rsfruitbat

sprint337 · #20 (**Post Link**) 12-03-12

Originally Posted by RSFruitbat

Mine came out of a 1350cc from an V reg Sud. When I was told about this years ago apparently one of the crank suppliers used to do it so its is complete pot luck as to whether you manage to get one I'm afraid.

Thanks. I have still a few 1500 cc engines in stock, may be it should be worth to have a look at the cranks

Originally Posted by RSFruitbat

Something else I was advised to do by someone who raced was to enlarge the main oil feed to 8mm (I think). The one that runs along the spine of the block.

I thought about it as well, but what should it help..? I think it´s waisted time to do so, the bottleneck is the oil groove in the main bearing shell..

Originally Posted by RSFruitbat

Forgot to ask. Are those the Gozzoli vernier cam wheels?
Are they as good as they look?
Were they worth the money?
Did you have any problems getting hold of them?

Yes, i used the Gozzoli cam wheels for the new engine, good stuff and their money worth. Much easier to handle as my old custom made ones.., and much lighter..

brit01 · #21 (**Post Link**) 12-03-12

Mine came out of a 1350cc from an V reg Sud. When I was told about this years ago apparently one of the crank suppliers used to do it so its is complete pot luck as to whether you manage to get one I'm afraid.

Thanks. I have still a few 1500 cc engines in stock, may be it should be worth to have a look at the cranks

Do you know until what year they cross-drilled these cranks? Maybe I can pick up a good used one there. I know of a few sources of alfa parts collectors locally.
Would need to take along a good micrometer to measure the journals though otherwise I might end up with a total lemon.

RSFruitbat · #22 (**Post Link**) 13-03-12

Sorry but I dont know any more than what I have already said. The only reason I know its true is because I came across this one in a car I broke for bits.

Sorry

If funds allow this year then I might see if I can get some Gozzoli wheels myself.

Out of interest what radiator do you use?

rsfruitbat

Supercharged16v · #23 (**Post Link**) 15-03-12

Someone has been busy !

I'd love to fit my Gozzoli pulleys soon as well. Might need your help on the timing though as I've never done cam timing before.

... something to do with the lift and degrees of the cams ? Mine are Colombo Barriani cams, I have the data sheet for them.

I'd love to change the rods as well. Hope they still will be available after a few months.

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