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Old 23-04-2008   #1 (Post Link)
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Sprint Electrics

Another quick question.

When I took the bumpers off my sprint I also removed the indicators (in the bumpers) I didn't really want to chop around the bodywork too much so I bought some side repeaters from Halfords and fitted them through an existing hole.
Now this works, but the indicators now flash too quickly (I'm pretty sure this is an MOT failure as well ) In fact it's just like what happens when you have a bulb in the circuit fail.
I think this all has something to do with the bulbs I'm using. The ones in the repeaters are 5 Watt and I think the older ones were 8.
Now the question:-
Is there anyway I can slow down the flashing maybe with a resistor? Also am I risking a fire by putting too much through the 5 Watt bulb?
The car is due an MOT at the end of May so I want to get it sorted ASAP.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Rob
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Old 23-04-2008   #2 (Post Link)
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Re: Sprint Electrics

I think that because you used different watt the resisant is different and it changed the balance on the black box of the flash. So there are couple of things? Either you put a 8W bulb so the ohm's are the same or you will have to use a ceramic resistance along with the bulb so that you have 8Watt consuption.


So Watts = Volts x Amps
and Ohms = Volts / Amps

You know the Volts which are 12v and you want the same watts so i guess you can calculate the resistance you want.


http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-ohmslaw.htm

www.alfisti.gr


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Old 23-04-2008   #3 (Post Link)
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Re: Sprint Electrics

Im sure the standard bulbs may even be 21w.....
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Old 23-04-2008   #4 (Post Link)
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Re: Sprint Electrics

Thanks for the advice. As you may have guessed Electics is a bit like majic to me. But using the provided link I have calculated that:
the amps for the 21 watt bulb are 1.75
the amps for the 5 watt bulb are 0.41

Giving a varience of 1.34 amps

so using OHMs law

12volts / 1.34 amps = 9 ohms

so putting a 9 ohm resistor in the line should do the trick.

Does that sound right?
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Old 23-04-2008   #5 (Post Link)
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Re: Sprint Electrics

i think the front indicators will need to be 21w to pass the MOT
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Old 23-04-2008   #6 (Post Link)
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Re: Sprint Electrics

Yeah, sounds OK Bob, just make sure its a 20 watt one, or is will get scorchio!

If its a 3 pin flasher unit though (Marelli or Lucas) you can get lower power versions that wont blink as fast as no farting about with resistors.

The power is stated on them, so find out what the rear blinker rating is.
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Old 23-04-2008   #7 (Post Link)
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Re: Sprint Electrics

Actually there isnt one that does 2x21 + 5 having now got the book out, so you will need to use resistors to balance the flash rate.

The original was a 4 x 21Watt or a plus 8 if with repeaters.
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Old 23-04-2008   #8 (Post Link)
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Re: Sprint Electrics

Originally Posted by dave.armstrong View Post
i think the front indicators will need to be 21w to pass the MOT
I just had a look at the MOT manual online and it doesn't mention anything about power, which I guess makes sense as they'd never be able to practically check.
All it says is the indicator has to be fixed and blink between 60 and 120 times a minute, which was my original concern. I might be Ok in terms of speed, but don't want an electrical fire if I can avoid it.
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Old 23-04-2008   #9 (Post Link)
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Re: Sprint Electrics

Originally Posted by cj romeo View Post
Actually there isnt one that does 2x21 + 5 having now got the book out, so you will need to use resistors to balance the flash rate.

The original was a 4 x 21Watt or a plus 8 if with repeaters.
Being an electrical novice I'm not really sure what that really means. Am I right to think a 9/10 ohm resistor will do it?
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Old 24-04-2008   #10 (Post Link)
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Re: Sprint Electrics

Originally Posted by robemcdonald View Post
Being an electrical novice I'm not really sure what that really means.
I think he means you can't fix the problem by buying a different flasher unit.

Originally Posted by robemcdonald
Am I right to think a 9/10 ohm resistor will do it?
If the indicator is meant to be 21W, then yes. You'll probably only find a 10 ohm resistor for sale, not a 9 ohm. Make sure you connect the resistor across the bulb (in parallel) not in series with it. The resistor will dissipate 16W of power (21 - 5) if the indicators get stuck on, so make sure the resistor is rated for that much.

There are other ways of arriving at your answer:
If you need to draw 21W of power to keep your flasher happy but your bulb only draws 5W, there's 16W left that needs to be drawn by your resistor.
Power = voltage x current (P = VI).
16 = 13 x I (using 13 because the voltage might be this high with the motor running)
I = 16 / 13 = 1.23 amps
What resistance will draw 1.23A when connected to a 13V source?
V = IR
13 = 1.23 x R
R = 13 / 1.23 = 10.6 ohms

Similarly if you need to draw 8W but only have a 5W bulb:
Need to draw 3W extra with the resistor.
P = VI
3 = 13 x I
I = 3 / 13 = 0.23 amps
Find resistor needed: V = IR
13 = 0.23 x R
R = 13 / 0.23 = 56.5 ohms
This resistor would only need to be rated at a minimum of 3W.

Also am I risking a fire by putting too much through the 5 Watt bulb?
Not if the bulb is rated for 12V. A 12V 5W bulb will draw 5W of power when connected to a 12V source. This is how much power it needs, and it will run happily.
Your car's electrical system will also run happily (aside from the flasher) because it's designed to be able to supply more power (either 8W or 21W) for the original design of indicator.
The ways to risk fire would be:
1.) "force feed" the bulb more power by supplying it with a higher voltage, e.g. 24V. This would cause the bulb to dissipate more power than it's designed for, and it would go very bright then blow.
2.) Draw more power from your car's electrical system than it's designed to deliver. E.g. if the car's designed to supply one 21W bulb but you put two such bulbs in parallel, you'll be asking for 42W from your car. Ideally a fuse will blow in this situation to protect your wiring from being overloaded.

I hope your 5W bulb is very efficient and bright (like LEDs) though, if it's meant to be as visible as a 21W bulb. You don't want anyone crashing into your Sprint..

"When there's a new Alfa, sales are very good at first," said the company's Italian spokesman, "but people don't come back for another one."

Last edited by Ben_NZ : 24-04-2008 at 11:08. Reason: Keep thinking of new bits to add!
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Old 24-04-2008   #11 (Post Link)
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Re: Sprint Electrics

Wow, Thanks for the answer!

I have all the components I need, but good call about putting it in parralell. (I would have put it in series on the + side)
I will let you know how I get on .

Thanks again

Rob
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Old 24-04-2008   #12 (Post Link)
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Re: Sprint Electrics

The resistor did the job, but almost is now nice and black as a result of overheating (nice smell too). Obviously not the correct power rating . It looks as though the maximum power resistor I can get is 10 Watt - 10 Ohm. I can also get a 7 watt 10 ohm resistor. COuld I use these in series to to gie 17 watts? and then put this in parralell to the bulb? Can you use resistors in series for this?

Hopefully someone can help !!
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Old 24-04-2008   #13 (Post Link)
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Re: Sprint Electrics

Thats why i told you to buy a ceramic resistor . Ceramic resistor are designed to stand heat...

Example http://www.khxcom.com/newEbiz1/Boot/...rName=BigImage


Not one like this http://www.khxcom.com/newEbiz1/Boot/...rName=BigImage

Last edited by Greek : 24-04-2008 at 19:52.
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Old 24-04-2008   #14 (Post Link)
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Re: Sprint Electrics

Originally Posted by Greek View Post
Thats why i told you to buy a ceramic resistor . Ceramic resistor are designed to stand heat...

Example http://www.khxcom.com/newEbiz1/Boot/...rName=BigImage


Not one like this http://www.khxcom.com/newEbiz1/Boot/...rName=BigImage
Ok fair comment, but can you use two resistors in series to get the Power correct?
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Old 24-04-2008   #15 (Post Link)
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Re: Sprint Electrics

Yes.. If i can remember corectly when add in series the result R =R1+R2
In Parallel the result R=1/R1+1/R2.
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Old 25-04-2008   #16 (Post Link)
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Re: Sprint Electrics

I have installed the ceramic resistors and it all seems to work fine. Thanks for your help guys.
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Old 25-04-2008   #17 (Post Link)
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Re: Sprint Electrics

nice bit of help between friends got the problem solved , brilliant
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