Sprint 6C build up

Going with GTcoop on this one, its not a good idea to use your setup, the fuel cell is the way to go and they come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, try a vertical top fill and mount it between the the suspension towers, this would give about 12-18" gap from the fan to the tank.
Regarding the SVA test I had a number of people tell me that as my car has a registration and chassis number it can go for a standard MOT this was confirmed by an MOT inspector and a chap who has built hot rods/ custom cars like mine for years. I have already arranged to take the car to the above tester.
There will be lots of Slips, Trips and Falls along the way but in the end its worth it, I know ..I drove mine for the first time in 8 years last night.

Another reason to revise the fuel tank placement is weight distribution. Can you imagine the bias going from neutral to rear-heavy as the fuel in the tank is consumed? It would be very evident in a mid-engined car, especially if it is relatively lightweight.

IMHO it should be closer to the car's centre of gravity/geometry as it was with the original FWD setup, hanging under the back seats.

Thanks for all the input re the fuel tank. It is as ever, a compromise. The low flat GTV tank fits under the steering track rods so goes as far back as possible for weight distribution change, (full to empty) and putting it in the front improves the front/rear weight distribution. Having it to one side helps to balance the driver weight slightly. Putting it at the rear would make it far to much rear weight biassed and there is no under rear seat room at all -no rear seat!, as the engine subframe is across there.
I have looked at the Rally Design site and there is a nice vertical 5 gall fuel cell - but the height means that it also would be well in front of the steering arms and up close to the radiator and impeding the airflow through it? .......
At the front is the reinforced big rubber/steel bumper, the front cross member of the bodyshell, the front cross member of the control arms and the radiator. I also intend to put a steel frame acoss the front of the tank and a steel cover over the top.
Re the MoT I am expecting it to be regarded as an engine change and so not need an SVA. (My V8 Sprite has always gone through on that basis)

nice work mate, you seem to be getting on pretty nicely
re the debate (or not ) on the fuel tank location, i think it won't be as critical as it could be if you were going to enter it into racing or anything. even on a track day it's not as though the handling will change from corner to corner, not by enough to change the car from an ocean liner to a speedway bike , and it seems like it will be nice and low down and pretty near the cars centre.
near the back around the original position may have caused a bit too tail happy a ride, should be ok i would have thought .
keep up the good work

"Re the MoT I am expecting it to be regarded as an engine change and so not need an SVA. (My V8 Sprite has always gone through on that basis)"

I don't know much about this SVA malarky but your V8 sprite still has its engine and fuel tank in its original position (albeit with twice the amount of cylinders).
Its coming on fine and whatever and however it turns out it'll still be admired by many an Alfanut . My 2p worth on the fuel tank issue having worked in, on and around crash repairs for the last 22 years is that if you must put it up front and use an Alfa tank in order to keep cost down and retain as much Alfaness as you can , then please at least try to source a plastic deformable tank (off of a later Alfa maybe?) so that a least if some fool should pull out in front of you or loose it on a circuit across your path, then the tank should stay intact keeping its fuel inside rather than turning your 6 cylinder beastie into an Alfa inferno .

Originally Posted by Green Berlina

"Re the MoT I am expecting it to be regarded as an engine change and so not need an SVA. (My V8 Sprite has always gone through on that basis)"

I don't know much about this SVA malarky but your V8 sprite still has its engine and fuel tank in its original position (albeit with twice the amount of cylinders).
Its coming on fine and whatever and however it turns out it'll still be admired by many an Alfanut . My 2p worth on the fuel tank issue having worked in, on and around crash repairs for the last 22 years is that if you must put it up front and use an Alfa tank in order to keep cost down and retain as much Alfaness as you can , then please at least try to source a plastic deformable tank (off of a later Alfa maybe?) so that a least if some fool should pull out in front of you or loose it on a circuit across your path, then the tank should stay intact keeping its fuel inside rather than turning your 6 cylinder beastie into an Alfa inferno .

can see the sense in the plastic tank for safety, what about a 156 one? plenty now in the scrappies, and they are plastic









or wrap it in kevlar

should've used the 2.4JTD derv

Originally Posted by craig_m67

should've used the 2.4JTD derv

Thanks again for all the input re the fuel tank - I am still in a quandary, as I would prefer a plastic modern tank preferably Alfa, but they seem to be wide and flat so will not fit into the Sprint front - however I have done another check on the dimensions of the rally design dragster fuel cell tank, and it may fit sideways to one side of the engine bay, and have more space between it and the radiator. Ho hum .....if I can sell some bits on e-bay then I could afford it!

Just to confuse you some more most of my stuff came from the states. With the exchange rate at the moment its still worth buying in, try SUMMIT RACING or JEGS you could even try EBAY.COM for the fuel cell as I have had loads sent over and most private sellers will send bits over listed below $50 so no vat or tax. I have some friends who have a brakers yard I will give them a call and see if they have any plastic tanks that are along your lines don't hold your breath as most of the time they stick a pick axe in them to drain them.

Come on guys, lets not kill this project before it gets on the road.

SVA could be avoided by claiming "radically altered" status (like the Custom car boys do). Under the DVLA rules, points are awarded for retaining items such as chassis, engine, gearbox, suspension etc.

chassis or body shell (body and chassis as one unit - monocoque ie direct replacement from the manufacturer) (original or new) = 5 points
suspension = 2 points
axles = 2 points
transmission = 2 points
steering assembly = 2 points
engine = 1 point

You need 8 points to retain your current registration and avoid being issued a Q plate and have to submit the car for SVA.

By my reckoning, Sixnut's 6C has 11 points - original chassis (albeit modified/braced), original suspension (at least at the front, and you could argue that the 164 struts are identical in function to the Sprint), original axles (ditto for front, arguable at the back) and steering assembly.

As for fuel tanks - yes, I accept all the safety arguments, but don't talk about mid-engined weight distribution unless its from experience. My fuel tank sits over the front axle line - there's nowhere else for it to go. My weight distribution, with 4 gallons reserve fuel, is 54% rear, 46% front. With a full tank of fuel this distribution changes by no more than 2%. In normal road use conditions this difference is negligible.

My fuel tank is TIG welded aluminium (I needed it to be shaped around the chassis to clear the steering rack and front suspension mounts), with no internal baffling and no safety foam (which would interfere with my float type sender). The tank is cradled by 30mm box section triangulation each side, and 20mm box fabrications supporting the radiator in front. I'm not proud of the fact that I have smacked the nose of the Nova into an embankment, but there was no loss of integrity in the tank - all I had was a holed radiator and no chassis damage (the fibreglass bodywork took the brunt of the impact).

So please, let's remain positive about this project - there are many hot rods and specials out on the roads which openly flout the regulations, but Sixnut is doing all the right things with the Sprint, and its going to be great when its done.

Lauren

Originally Posted by Spacenut

Come on guys, lets not kill this project before it gets on the road.

I don't think anyone here is trying to kill this project. On the contrary I think most people here will have the same admiration for Alfasixnut as i do for taking on this project

However the end result of how the 6C will handle, brake, steer, etc is a totally unknown quantity until he actually gets this car on the road so it can't be compared to your Nova kit car. The Nova's been around for over 30 years and has evolved into the finished article over this period. The chassis's designed to have the engine in the rear and the tank up front.

Don't letting blinding enthusiasm cloud your judgement when it comes to safety. The type and postion of the tank that Alfasixnut proposed to use is not safe. Not just for the occupants of his car but if he were to collide with another and it caught fire. In the UK we have a very relaxed regulations on what is allowed to be driven on the public roads. In other countries a car with such extensive modification would need to be rigourously tested before it would be allowed to go on the road.

Don't want to sound anal here but driving a car can on public roads can be as dangerous as a waving about loaded gun. If the car doesn't handle, brake, steer properly and you've got a potential fire bomb up front to set the whole thing ablaze then it doesn't bare thinking about the consequences

Oooh, Its starting to get *****y.

At the end of the day this car and others like it will only be safe as the builders conscience and from what i have read,I think Alfasixnut has a conscience. So with or without our advice it will be one hell of a nice safe car.

I think we have more to worry about from the Vauxhall Corsa crew than a front end fuel tank when driving on the roads...BUT point well made and taken .....anyhow, on a lighter note the 155 also had a plastic tank that (from memory) wasn't wide and thin, in fact i think it was slightly triangular shaped and while it is a long time since I laid under a 155, memory serves it might go up front.

Originally Posted by alfa302

Oooh, Its starting to get *****y.

Absolutely not ........ we're all just a bunch of Alfa nutters sharing our opinions


Anyway there's nothing wrong with a bit of healthy debate and the odd constructive criticism The forum would be a boring place if we all just agreed with each other and spouted niceties.