DSP updgrading easier with 166 facelift

Hello to everybody

I'm trying to convince myself that DSP installation is at least a feasible job so I have collected informations from this and other forums in order to prepare me in the right way for this.

Technical documentation by Alfa doesn't provide many helps also for me that live in Italy with many specific dealers and garages available near (in fact DSP is a very rare choise for 166 buyers).

However recently by means of e-learn and some inspections on the boot, I have discovered on my 166 2.4 Mjtd 20V facelift 2005 many interesting differences respect the old version that will make the upgrading job much more easier (I hope):

1) DSP location is now on the opposite side (the right) respect navigator/CD unit. DSP is near the specific ABI control unit and relevant fuse and relais assembly (Photo 1,2)


2) connections to the 8 speakers are available now on a single white connector just near the DSP! Is sufficient to deconnect the two connector and one of this (going to the speakers) is available for connction to one of the two DSP connector (P70 A). The other (coming form ICS output remain not used) (Photo 3)

4) DSP power supply cable is already on the speaker connector!(Photo 3 and e-learn tech. doc)

5) DSP fuse (to protect cable at point 4) is already on the fuse arness just near the DSP (Photo 4)

6) Connector for the supply of DSP is already here just near (not connected) to the battery (Photo 5)

The first consequence of this situation is that is however possible to connect any power amplifier do you want just driving it from the ICS output. In this case up to 6 channels/10 speakers can be driven .

In case of HK DSP remain for me to find the way to connect the second DSP connector (P70B)to the ICS (lines, serial link, silence command, DSP sw on/off). I'm confident that a spare provision for this connection will be available inside the car and so I could avoid to dismount the ICS (at least last chance)

I gently ask to the other 166 facelift owners(if interested) to check these information also because i'm not sure that should be exactly applicable to all facelift version (there were a transititon phase with old and new model contemporary present around 2003/2004).

In particular could be important to have information on how to connect the DSP P70B connector.

Many thank and.....any reply is welcome

Ps.. When a DSP is fitted on a not DSP fitted version the ICS will set on automatically the new configuration? No new sw is necessary?

Once more thanks for any suggestion and ...... sorry for my english

Some news on the subject.
Seems from Alfa e-learns, that with 166 facelift that adopt Navs and cD changer (like mine) the loom shall include also DSP connections.
No other possibility are forecasted.

This is a very good information as the DSP connectors are really impossible to procure.

The only problem is to dismount piece to piece the back to find were these damned connectors are (now found only speakers and power supply ones).

If other facelift proprietary have same informations please make an advise.

Ciao

Oh come on F/L owners, this man has gone to so much trouble writing this in english! Help him out please

Not sure how many F/L onwers on here with DSP...I think most are pre facelifts..Drummerboy.


Sorry ser nanni buy keep checking baack if you dont find the answer elsewhere coz it makes some difference to the sound but mine was factory fitted and I have had nothing to investigate on it other than enjoy it.

Pomeo.

Well Pom, thats put me right off buying a Facelift! Both mine have the DSP, its a far more useful option than the rear blind!

god knows why they didn't do that on the older cars - would have made life so much easier for retro fitting. And why did they not just have one ICS loom so that the satnav could be just plugged in?? Must have saved them all of about £2 quid per car....

could you describe me what is the "loom" - don't know the word..

the loom is the wiring...

The connectors on pic 1/3 and the fuse on pic 4 are present in my 166 FL. I haven't noticed any extra cables in the battery area...

I have also found 3 other connectors behind the right side panel. 1 small black and 2 small brown ones.

SATNAV and CDC is factory fitted.

A year ago or so I bought a DSP AMP for the 166 off ebay. The unit has the combined AR, Fiat, Lancia etc logo on it and the letters HAES. There is also a part number, 60658302. This is the same part number that i listed on eper for the 166. The unit have one big white connector and on smaller black connector. I know this unit comes from a 166 because it came together with a CDC and mounting rack.

None of the connectors behind the panel fits any of the connectors on the DSP unit. The DSP unit seems to be a little to large to fit behind the panel.

Is it possible that the FL use a different and smaller DSP unit?

The 166 FL use the same DSP of the first 166 series. I have verified with a DSP with the same pn of your that it fit with the specific housing in the right side of the boot.
Unfortunately I was not yet be able to find the two connectors for DSP soomewhere in the boot. I definitevely believe that they are not in the car so I will try to procure spares from breakers.

I even disconnected the big white speaker plug and it did not fit the DSP big white socket. When I disconnected this plug the ICS went silent. (no sound in speakers)

I even found the connectors for the subs under the parcel shelf

The big white male connector have +12 v present all the time on the "big pin". When removing the thick wire with the yellow clip (below DSP fuse on pic 4) from the fuse box the +12 V is gone and so is the boot interior light. There should be no need for a ekstra lead to the battery as it seems the DSP unit is powered from the fusebox via the big white male connector?

I also found out that it is the male part of the big white speaker connector that have + 12 v present. The connector on my DSP unit (pn 60658302) is also male. It is no way possible to connect the two connectors both beeing male connectors.

I'm now convinced that I need a small loom or that I have the wrong DSP unit.

My DSP unit is 19,5 cm long (connectors not included), 19 cm wide and 3,9 cm thick. SW - VERSION 14, HW - VERSION 03

I also found a orange colored connector behind the right side panel, but the loom is to short for this connector to reach the DSP unit.

ok 2.4 jtd there are many informations on your post so I will try to proceed in order.

1- the white connectors found doesn't fit idrectly on the DSP. It allow to have access easiy to the 8 speakers and to the DSP power supply (the central big pin you have found on the white conector); this is the reason way the ICS is silent when you detach the connector (speakers are not more connected)

2- to connect the DSP you need a specific cabling that engage the white connector (for speakers and power supply) and the ICS (for the DSP source driving and bus control);

3-in tha attached file you can find the schematics relevant to the complete connections of the DSP to the ICS. Normally without DSP the right side of the D91 (white) connector is connected directly to the ICS. When the DSP is present you have to disconnect the right one the replace with the specific cabling as indicated in the picture. Unfortunately there is no specific kit for this as the cabling is provided from the factory.

4- be sure your is the right DSP (I am not sure that it works but I hope); try to fix on the specific housing on the end of the right boot.

5 - Now the more intersting thing. As the subwoofer cabling is only present if ALL the cabling for the DSP is present (see the schematics) if you have found it if seems that nothing is loose at this time. You should follows these cables to find were they are connected. Near this point probably there could be present the two DSP connector missing (P70A-white; P70B-black with clips)

Thanks for the Wiring diagram. I think I'm beginning to understand now....

The connectors P60B, P60C and P75 are available behind the right side boot panel. It is 1 small black and 2 small brown ones.

The male part of D91 has 11 wires and one of them is +12v. I think this connector goes to the speakers.

The female part of D91 has 8 wires and I think this is the speaker output signals from the ICS.

To connect my DSP AMP I will need a specific wiring loom which connects to the male part of D91, P60B (male), P60C (male) and D75 (male). I guess this could be procured as a spare part from any Alfa Romeo dealer?

I guess the female part of D91 is not used when there is at DSP AMP installed?

No 2.4jtd. P60B, P60c 26 pins connectors aren't in the boot but normally are the ones connected directly to the ICS! P75 is another one yust near the ICS.
So the possibilitues are two:
1- all the cabling is already fitted from factory and so good listening with the DSP!
2- the cabling for DSP is missing and so we have at first to procure the two specific connectors that go to the DSP (in this case breakers seems the only chance) and also to connect pins to pins DSP to the P60B and C but adding pins to the connectors on the iCS.

As a last possibility could be possible to procure from a breaker ALL the cabling from ICS to DSP including also Nav and CDC but in this case I perceive that it's necessary to dismount a great part of the car!

Finally for the female part of the D91 you are right it is not used when DSP is present (but take care of the pins because they are always connected to the ICS).

I see, and then I guess that the signals from P60B, P60C and P75 are available on the three small connectors behind the right side boot panel?

The rear shelf sub connector seems to go into a larger wiring loom that goes behind the back seat. Maybe I should remove back seat to investigate further. Any idea how to remove back seat?

Sorry but it seems not compatible with the cabling repoted in the Alfa 166 e-learn (at least up to the 2005). there are no evidence of any other intermediate connectors between ICS and DSP.

On the other hand the fact that there are sub connectors (are yellow ?) means that an extra cabling is present in the car.

Try to post some pics (use the "go advanced" facility selecting and confirming upòoad of your pics).

I attach a pic that show the aerial connectors connected to a DSP of another priend.

For rear seat removing I have not tried up to now but other friend on this forua have done (use search to find the relevant posts)