Report on LPG Conversion of 166

Hello & Happy New Year to all at the Forum

Sorry you have heard nothing from me recently but this was because a big red Post Office van smashed up my little red [converted]166 on Friday 13th October whilst sitting minding my own business in a box junction in Croydon. I had the LPG conversion done a few weeks earlier and am still trying to recover my uninsured losses from the Post Office.

I now have a well specd and physically cared for 166 on a Y plate which i picked up from a good and honest private owner in Hull for less than £3000.00 [not much less]

I still love driving the car although i now have to have the conversion done again in the new year.

For everyones info, and to report as promised, the LPG conversion went very well [I had it done through Greenfuel at a Stambridge [Essex] conversion specialist - both provided an excellent service and a superb and professional conversion] at the time of the shunt, i was achieving something like 35mpg on a long run with a light throttle foot. The power output was fine, the engine which was already quiet, if anything ran just a little quieter. The only slight down-side was that LPG prices are very variable and [in aug / sept] varied between 39p per litre at Morrisons and an extortionate 48.9p per litre at BP stations. this meant that i often went out of my way to fill up at Morrisons where possible. Also the tank size for the 166 wheel well only allowed [in practice] approximately 45 litres of LPG before it switched back to petrol because you can only use about 80% of the nominal capacity of the tank. Fine if you live near a reasonably priced LPG capable garage. In summary, conversion was in financial terms a really worthwhile exercise with very few down-sides if you do a lot of mileage like me but there are a few inconveniences. [You would not be able to use the channel tunnel for example]

I will run a new thread to ask a question on a mechanical problem i am having with the new car

Happy New Year to everyone and many miles of safe and happy Alfa driving to all.

Happy new year to you as well! can i just ask what alfa and what area did you buy your car from! I used to live in Hull and just wondering who's 166 it could be (i got talking to a few owners)

I remember a black one about, a silver one and two P-red ones about!

I was thinking about LPG. Do you loose any of the performance at all, im guessing there heavy tanks!

Runcoach, was your 166 a 2.0TS or a V6?
Has anybody done an LPG conversion on a V6 I wonder?

alfapat has LPG on his 164 24v....

Hi

I bought the car on a private sale from a chap in Belvedere

Really honest guy, warned me about excessive oil loss and took pictures of every scuff [there are only a couple ] before i travelled up. I really knew the car and it was entirely as described.

The Car is a well looked after Silver 2.0TS Lusso on a Y plate with a Bose entertainment system that is really capable of blowing you away if you want to max volume without a trace of distortion in a 'standard' system, a CD Autochanger, gas discharge Xenon headlights which work superbly [despite one or two threads on the site which seem to suggest to the contrary - i truly believe that appropriate adjustment is the key as a few people have suggested] Full unblemished momo upholstery and 'wood' dash trim including a very comfortable wooden steering wheel, Also rear parking sensor system. The only thing it lacks really is cruise control. - A great spec for less than £3k

Even if i have to spend a couple of £K on mechanical repairs/upgrades and removal of a few blemishes / stone chip marks I will still be getting a lot of car and a really nice drive for less than £5K which should sort me for a couple of years. I will get the car converted to LPG in a few weeks.

Hi

The car is a 2.0TS, I can ask the conversion specialist whether he has converted any 3.0 V6 Alfas. One thing to bear in mind is that a conversion on a 6 cylinder car will, of course cost a bit more because of the 6 jet system rather than the 4 jet which was installed on mine. My conv'n cost just about £1800 including VAT and they provided me with a courtesy car whilst the conversion was being undertaken. [about a week] I would guess that a V6 would be about £2100 - £2200. I have a very high annual mileage [about 1000 miles a week] so my payback time would only be about 8 -9 months. If you are doing little mileage, the conversion does not pay back so quickly of course although you are being enviro friendly. Also bear in mind that most reputable converters will not touch diesel cars although i understand that there is some more advanced conversion technology on its way which would suit diesel vehicles.

The question was asked about power. I personally did not notice any drop off in power anywhere in the rev range, but i presume it relies on an accurate set-up. The weight of the tank can be compensated for by keeping only a nominal amount of petrol in the tank. I used to keep the tank about a quarter full to cater for any problems with finding a gas station. The beauty of a duel fuel system is that you can always change over to Petrol if there is a gas supply problem [although i never found one apart from the price variation mentioned previously]

I also found that i got a cheaper quote and a lot of information going through greenfuel than i did direct from the installer.

Please let me know if you want to talk to any specific contacts to ask technical questions about the conversion possibilities

Any would-be converts should also note that you won't be allowed through the Channel Tunnel with an LPG tank. I don't know about the ferries but I guess that there's a safety issue with this fuel.

3.2 166, lpg here i come!!!!! or GTA LPG...now were talking

I have a Prins II system LPG system fitted to my '99 Silver, 2.5 Sportronic V6. I was told the tank is about 30kg weight when full. It is a 55 ltr tank fitted in spare wheel area and is such a pleasure filling up for between £25 - £28 . The feul saving are unbelievable!! I thought the day would be over where one would be able to drive a 24V in town. Power is the same, vehicle starts cold in petrol and automatically switches over after about 3 mins during this weather quicker when warmer. Gauge is fitted next to autobox with an indicator telling you when you are down to last 9 ltrs. Even if you run out it will automatically switch over to petrol. Service areas not far away and BP gas stations never to far. Time to let her go soon as my wife is scared to take her out when she off work sometimes saying 'it is to posh' and she doesn't want to prang her (little side streets where we live in east london). I cannot argue for ever and when she right she right This was such a RARE opportunity to enjoy a five year relationship but 5 years more with the misses is the wiser choice for now I am sure there will be another chance . Prins system cost £2000 and has been serviced. Timing belt done mid last 06 and MOT passed 01/07. Vehicle to be advertised soon around the 3K with FASH and every conciveable xtra except sat nav, £££ spent. That's life

So what are the downsides except you loose boot space, and the annual service! Im gonna have a hard time trying to convince my dad to get GTA LPG rather then the 1.9jtd!

Petrol cars a much much cheaper as well to buy! A mint GTA is 12k which isnt all that bad! I could spend 15k on a GT 1.9 JTD..................or 3.2 166 and have the best of both worlds

Diesel VS LPG is what im asking I guess!

Hi

There are very few other downsides if you are doing high mileage and intend to keep the car and run it for a few years. It does not however make sense to convert if you change vehicles regularly and do low mileage. You will not get the return on the conversion when you sell the car although you might sell it easier because of the fuel cost saving available to the new owner.


You really have to do the sums to suit your pattern of vehicle use. If you allow approx. £2000 for the conversion onto your car purchase cost unless you are buying already converted, also assume approx. 10% less mpg on gas than you would get with petrol i.e. if you are getting 30mpg on Petrol you are likely to get around 27-28 mpg on gas and factor in your anticipated mileage per year and the cost differential between diesel and autogas in your area, then you should be able to calculate the payback time for the conversion assuming that you do not [like i did] have a crash before you have recovered your dosh. Bear in mind that your insurers will [usually] not charge any extra premium for the conversion provided it is a 'genuine' ' certified' conversion. [they will want to see the certificate] but if you prang the car, they will not add any value to take into account the cost of the conversion and you will have to negotiate with them to permit you to remove the gas installation kit before taking it to salvage [ they let me do it but it took me about 5 hours to remove it] - you would then have to get it refitted in your replacement vehicle [about £1100]

Gas conversion is not appropriate in every case and for everybody but if like me you are a high mileage driver that purchases a pretty much already depreciated vehicle and wants to run it for a couple of years at a cheap price with the advantage of retaining whatever power you want yourself [if you fancy a powerful car turning in 20mpg, you will achieve the fuel cost benefit and still have the power under your boot] You will also be really envirofriendly compared to the particulates that a diesel engine throws out.

If you are happy with a JTD you will obtain better consumption but your fuel cost will be almost £1.00 per litre as opposed to approx .40p - 50p depending on where you obtain your autogas.

You really just have to do your sums and make a decision that is right for you.

Good luck with your calculations - if you want to do the sums and post them i will look them over for you to see if i think you have missed anything.

any chance of getting lots of pics of the conversion, both front end and tank instalation? i've been toying with the idea of diy conversion for a while but it would be great to see a professional instalation on a 166....

Awsome Runcoach! Thats really helpful!

Ill definatly be doing some sums, and it would be great if you could look over them for sure!

You can have a look at mine when I poick up the satnav

Niall

Having spent ages taking out [after my prang] the very professionally fitted gas conversion that was completed by my specialist, i am not saying it is impossible to diy but to make everything fit neatly under the 166 bonnet is a work of art and not to be undertaken lightly. [ i was amazed how they managed to fit all the bits in and get all the covers and shields back in place.], also experience in setting up the jets is a must because even the specialist had problems in getting everything to run smoothly. Finally, beware of the insurance angle. You may not be able to get insured on a diy installation unless you get it checked, verified and certified by a registered installer anyway. Unless you are very keen, i would tend to leave it to the experts. even if you could source the major components and minor accessories such as gas tubing etc which you would have to pay for in small quantities as cheaply, [which i doubt] for a one off installation, you would only save about £1000 including VAT which represents the labour / fitting element of the exercise.less whatever they would charge you to certify it even if you could get it done.

So worse case, take a BMW 540i 4.4 V8, 15mpg in town

Alfa JTD, about 40mpg (i know it maybe a bit lower but like to think the worst in the petrol car)

I would in effect be paying for 30mpg Vs 40Mpg

But on the m-way, (28mpg) 56mpg in the 540i, and 50mpg, but i keep all the power, and the comfort and the car only cost about 13k (540i)

Originally Posted by a17esh

So worse case, take a BMW 540i 4.4 V8, 15mpg in town

Alfa JTD, about 40mpg (i know it maybe a bit lower but like to think the worst in the petrol car)

I would in effect be paying for 30mpg Vs 40Mpg

But on the m-way, (28mpg) 56mpg in the 540i, and 50mpg, but i keep all the power, and the comfort and the car only cost about 13k (540i)

Good points, but you would still be in a beemer